Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout09.16.99City of Sanford Planning and Zoning Commission Regularly Scheduled Meeting 7:00 P.M. Thursday, SEMMBERI6, 1999 City Commission Chambers, City Hall, Sanford, Florida AGENDA 1. Hold a Public Hearing to consider a request to Rezone property located at 2150 Country Club Road from MI -2, Medium Industrial, RI -1, Restricted Industrial and SR -1, Single Family Residential, to that of PD, Planned Development. Tax Parcel No: 35- 19 -30- 300 - 0320 -0000 Owner: Stanley H. Sandefur, TR Representative: John Buttrey 2. Hold a Public Hearing to consider a request for a Dimensional Variance for property located at 407 W. 4"' Street in a SC -3, Special Commercial Zoning District, for a reduction in parking space requirement. Tax Parcel No: 25- 19- 30 -5AG- 0607 -0010 Owner: Seminole Volunteer Enterprises, Inc. Representative: Jean Metts 3. Minutes. 4. Any other business from floor or Commission Members. 5. Reports from Staff. ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC. If a person decides to appeal a decision made with respect to any matter considered at the above meeting or hearing, he may need a verbatim record of the proceedings including the testimony and evidence, which record is not provided by the City of Sanford (FS 286.0105) Persons with disabilities needing assistance to participate in any of these proceedings should contact the personnel office ADA Coordinator at 330 -5626, 48 hrs in advance of the meeting. r- MINUTES PI,A=nw AND Soarne cawasslou REETIN43 Or SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 7:00 P.M. CITY COW1ISSION CHAMBERS CITY HA4L, SANF01iD, FLORIDA MEMBERS PRESENT: Andrew Kutz Ross Robert Kevin Hipes Carol Dennison Mike Skat MEMBERS ASSENT• . Timothy Hudson Otto Garrett- excused James Valerino Bobby VonHerbulis- excused C .S- . SENT: Jay M&rder, Director- o-f Engineering and Planning Russ Gibson, Land Development Coordinator Mr. Skat called the meeting to ord$r at 7:00 P.M. First on the Agenda was to hald a Public Hearing to consider a request to Rezone property.locat.ed at 2150 Country Club Road.from MI -2, Medium Indus- trial, RI -1, Restricted Industrial and SR -1, Single Family Residential, to that of PD, Planned Development. John Buttrey, 6239 Edgewater Drive Orlando, was present. He stated that this is a 55 acre piece. of.property in an.industrial area, The City needed a retention pond in this area for flood control and the new Missing Link construction needs several million yards of fill material. They.have entered into a- agr with the- City and, the land over to excavate the retention pond and use that material in the construction of the Missing Link. Air. Mardex explained that the City was going to , purchase , a portion of this property because it needed land to make drainage - retention areas for the Cloud Branch /Mill Cxeek Basin since it was not planned with any drainage retention facilities. Our Engineers, Conklin., -Postez & Holmes have reviewed this proposal and it turns-out that the way this propo-sal is-set -up, the City does come out the winner in that we get a lot more drainage retention capacity for less mang than we would have paid for a small amount of property. It is all being, basically, done for us. Mr- Buttrey stated that there are two .ponds - be -ing .pr.opo -sed and they are both wet. They will keep Mater in them at all tunes. The maintenance will be limited to the perimeter areas -_ one.pond is a level of 24' and the other is hig ]Zer at about 29 This is an environmental requirement. There are a lot of wetlands around this area and the .SJRWMID will not allow that whole area to be dropped down for fear it will damage the wetlands. He stated that there is a permeability barriex involved with .the...proje.ct, this is what the SJRWMD wanted. to aee so this will he. put. iz- to keep from, drying the wetlands out. They halve proposed to put muck -in the bottom - of - the -ponds-, which is a fairly common thing to do. The City is requiring that this not be put in around the HENUTES 2 LANNTNG AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 2 drainage structures. This will.be done as the -City - requires. The bottom of the finished pond will be on an impermeable layer, a semi - confining layer. There was no one else to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request. Mr. Robert moved for approval based on .Staff's rec exactly. Ms. Dennison - seconded. Der. Hipes wanted to make sure that temporary fencing is secured. All in favor. motion carried. Next on the Agenda was -to hold a Public Hearing to consider a request for a Dimensional Variance for property located at 407 W, A' Street in a SC-3, Special Commercial Zoning District, for a reduction in parking space requirement. & A01 011MV.1 III of Ms. Letts. -My name is Jean Metts. My home-address is 4601 Orange Blvd., Lake Monroe. I spend most of my time at 407 W. 4 St. This building is a wonderful building and was -built in 19T6, and an the east end of the building and on the south side of the building, the railroad tracks came right up to the building where the box cars-could-be off loaded into that building. It was originally built to be White's Wholesale Grocery Distribution Center. That was _hafnre we had all the Minn Wxlwa, and _Pub ; x, -and that sort of th That's wh w.we had the mon.and pop groceries. Currently, the site is being -used in the same way except it is - filled with USDA food commodities.- -We distribute to low income households once a mouth, or the last Monday and Wednesday of each.manth, Dne of the .things . about the .location of the building is that as presently railroad right -of- way go from 25' from the middle of the tracks out on both sides, usual-ly.about a 50' might -of -way. Well of course, if that was the case with this building then the railroad right -of -way would go under the 1]uildlng, .s.o out hu±lding is sitt on its property. There is still parts of the all rail., in place at both of th_eae ends of the building, they do not connect with -any other rails. I don't -know - whether its easier for me to go on speaking or may be you could ask questions that you want to know, whatever you like. Andrew Xutz: I'd like to know a little more about your restaurant. Tell me about it. Could you tell me what do you plan to do there. Ms. Netts: We.got this building to do the food cgmmodities. We were located. in the ald Zayre. Pla and a£ course it was tarn, down so we had to relocate. This building houses our offices and all of the food that we have to keep in the warehouse. At the time that we acquired this building, everything that we are doing now was a permitted use. A restaurant is a permitted use._ IL rotas a lway s used for a food. distribution of some kind or the other, either by White's Grocery or the Seminole County School Board. And that hasn't changed. The only thing that we would like to do is to serve meals to needy people. I'm not talking about homeless _people and I'm not t alking ahaw snug kitchens, I_'m_ tal abouh a b eautif ul dining area where people can come in and eat. The City of Sanford has over 34,000 population and of that number, more than - 23,00-0• are living below the poverty level. This is the justification for these programs. We are committed to help anyone who MIrIUT P!I&Ak -ING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 3 needs food and since the Government has ref -o-umd the welfare programs, the AFDC programs, there- are -many singly mothers with two -or three children who work right here for the City of Sanford and for Seminole County who fit the crit-exi.a to be able to get food at. our facility_ Its used to give seniors food, we .get referrals...from the Food Staff Agency, from community assistance, the Health Department, the Jobs and Benefits programs, and the working poor. Mr. Kutz: When.you say you .get referrals, what does that mean, people are sent to you from those agencies? 3 Metts: Yes, those .people are refesred.to us by these agencies. For example•, if a man loses -his- }oh and he goes -to sign up fox benefits or whatever., you know he's not - going to-get anything for a number of days, so he is sent to our facility and he gets emergency food until.... Mr.-Kutz; How .do you check them out to see Whether they are in fact needy? Ms. Metts: Well we know that if they are coming from the food stamp office and their e- l.i.gihle- far food stamps that they are in deed low income. But ever -yore who comes through our office is do as to their income, where they live and what they make. Mr. Kutz: You mean you make a record of what they te11 you. Do you have any type of-investigatckry activity -to- confirm whether or not -they are- telling you the truth? Ms_ Metts: Yes, we do -. A -lot of peopl-e and veterans have cards that they bring. We ask for proof of income. If someone is referred by the food stamp office and they have told -us these - peopZE don't -have a job and they've applied £oz fQad stamps and we've o.kayed them, then we know that someone has already gone through all of that procedure. Mr. Robert: Ms. Metts you had mentioned to Andy that currently what you do_is buLk . diztr- -bution of foods and - .assume that those people, those needy people take those foods to their kitchen and cook them, that would be true? Ms. Mettp: Yes, that's true. Mr. Robert: And so in the case of .your restaurant, _you're fulfilling an additional need. Would you be using the same bulk foods or do you go and buy? Ms. Metts: We get food from the Department_of. and we don't buy any food. It is- donated through two or three Publix Supermarkets and various other sources. We have some wonderful donors who, and we get food from Second Harvest, if we have to buy any. Mr. Roberts So if you were granted tonight the -park mg, and the City Conmmis-sion also allows it, your operation will change. Will you then be using as you become a restaurant, can you use that same food that you now get from UZDA, bud instead of handing it out uncooked, will you be cooking that same food in the kitchen to serve. Ms. - Metts: Yes., for -the most _part, eyes. We. are a food pantry for the -US Department of Agriculture and we also have the emergency food assistance which MT.N[I TIAD IING -AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 par_P. a is food handed out and the other is a more bulk food, The food kitchens and the- food pantries- are -just about the same thing. We get, for example, five pounds of dehydrated bags of potatoes and things in bulk amount to cook, to serve_. The need fox -the park I feel., is not a. need at all because most of tbese.people ride a bicycle. We served 30_people.in August a meal just to see what it would be like. We didn't have a single person come in a car. They walked or they rode bicycles. Mr. Roberta -I didn't -realize these :were .that many close enough to walk or ride a bicycle. Ms_.Mettsz There are quite a.numbes -of -people, -even those living in apartments in the Historic District, who frequently use our facilities. Mr. Robert: You had mentioned that your building occupies all of your land� that basically the face of your- huil_diag is your property line and wouldn't -it be ..a one .sided bui -lding - where -there -would be a little bit of property that would be yours, not in the railroad right -of -way. Ms. Metts: Well .= the 4' Btreet .side it -appears - that it goes with the b uilding - L don't know how long it was that way but it does appear it goes with the - building- It may in fact -be -a u by the . -City -of Sanford. But the other businesses have the same sort of setup, whether its those sidewalks or any, there's the pavement and then there's parking. Mr-_ Robert: In other words that p arking on the northside on 4r' Street probably is .within -the City's .rdght- of-way -and -the City owns- it but its been there for years and utilized for years. The new parking obviously on the west .is the alley, you can'-t clog the alley, and then that railroad right -of -way, I guess that could be bought from the railroad. Ms_ Metts: Well -I have -been in touch -with the Railroad. I couldn't afford, or our organization couldn't afford to buy it nor could we lease it from them. My feeling about that is if.we use the Railroad right -of -way for Par I - that' a hatween S i na Le. vol Faitexprises and CSX Railroad. I know that when the auctions are .held that the ,School ..Board, just across the street from us, the School Board auction facility, there's parking everywhere, all over the place, and the -same with -all of these festiv$ls that are held on a yearly haais and anytime there is any special thing, people park there. We've never had a problem with that. I did try to do that. Mr. Robert: I've noticed that during big events, single event things, we have parking tat does spill over. Ms. Metts, One thing that .I will call to..yovr attention is a Downtown Special Caxmnereial District Working Group that did a Parking study dated November 20, that was when Bill Simmons was City Manager. They had staff review_ of land use regulations of the Downhown area_ Ccmml ssioner Lessard, Cary Farrell., Downtown .Mer chant a, Jennifer Siugei.sen, Sanford Main Street, Ron Roae_, Latta Sollien., the Ristorica Preservation Board, Rick Colgrove, Lisa Nason, A.A. McClanahan,, and Walt Nason, recommended to the City Commission after they did this. study, par within_ the entire SC--3 Zone with buildings constructed prior to the. adoption of the.Ci-ty'.s _cuxremt Land Development Regulations of December 1988 would be exempted from parking requirements. MINUTES 21ANNNING _AISM ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 5 There'-s just no way that I could meet_any. par requirements and we are the only huild in thia en_tise. hLock that La. designated in the Historic District. -We have tried Aili-gently to keep ,this _bui di--ng as closely to the way it is as possible. We had a lady call us who said well people are c about that - building.have. not ridden down the -stre -ets and-seen the hig izats running out of the building down the railroad tracks. Well of course that'$ not happening now. Mr. Robert: You may be in the Historic District btuy.your entire block is in that same SC -3 Zoning. Ms. Metts: Yes, it is. Yes., it is, and what we are doing is all pe- rmitted uses in that area. I would just call your &Mention to, you know, what do people like the Time Square Bistro and Jazz Club, I mean how does those people meet requirements. The Farmers Market that is held on Tuesday mornings, and so forth. Mr.- Hipes: This is a. request for -a variance -0f parking. Has this building ever been used as a restaurant or has it always been something other than that. Ms. Mett.s, We have not serve.d.a meal from the restaurant. The stove is not hooked up and I told 14r. Marder it world not be until we had the parking variance satisfied. So, if, this.past couple of days ago,, on Tuesday, we had Cpl._ Poaueyy, from the Sanfor Pa i ce Dept. came by and ask if we could provide food for 70 .police officers who were working through the - aurricane. Fortunately, we had electricity and we have microwaves, so we prepared bar -be- cue beef for 70 people. We also provided shelter which we were not planning to do. but people in. mob -ile. homes knew of this hul .and came, and we had 20 people stay there overnight. Of course we fed them and.they left the next morning. It is a wonderful building to be used for disaster relief and that's why we have a nice 10 burner gas stove there. Keuia Hipes:. Historically, the history of the building it has never been a restaurant before, as far as you know? Mss Metts.: The his -tort' of the building it has not been a restaurant use, but a restaurant is permitted use in the SC -3 Zoning. Kevin.Hipes: The nark that ls. Qn the street thane,, Jay, your opinion considering that a lot of her clientele - supposedly don'.t drive cars, you think that would be a burden, on -the other buildings in terms of parking? I know we've seen a lot of downtown places that are really not capable of having appropriate parking. Jay Marder:.That's somewhat of a value.judgement. -I think that it is in your purview to consider. As far as staff is concerned, I think we've made our recommendation, Carol Dennison: What time would you be serving meals, Jean? Jean Metts.:, Pr_ohably between the hours, of 4:30 to 7:40. If we see the need, then we wool- d-have lunch for s-enior citizens like, oh, the people that serve the meals to seniors, Meals On Wheels. MTUUTES. .p r,AN1U_hTG ,.AND ZONING CONN[ISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 6 Ms. Dennison: .What you are doing is an absolute, fabulous thing, I think, however, it says - here far a proposed restaurant for what you propose to serve, the ordinances say that you should have 50 spaces, instead you can provide 14 with a variance of 36, where can you find 14 spaces down there? Ms. Metts: There are 14 spaces if they park on the narth.side of the building, if they park on the east end, if they park across the street where it still is City property where the School Board is, next door is Gordon Butcher Cabinet Shop, and another building to the end of the street. Ms. Deunison:.My- question _is like Goz -don Dutcher Cabinet Shop and the others, aren't these other people utilizing those spaces at this time? Ms. Metts: They have offered their areas with no-problems. The School Board closes at 3:30, so there is no one there. Ms. Dennison: That's why I was asking the times.. -1 was by.theme.and there were four cars in the front of the place today and it was very crowded. Ms. Metts: In front of my place? What side? Ms: Dennison: On the north side of your building„ in front, the north side or what -have you. I was on 4th Street, -the 4th Street side, there were four cars there..... Ms. Metts: On the 4 Street there is room for four cars to park under the covering and there is 5 or 6 more spaces east of that. Mr. Kutz: How many people are working # the building now? Ms. Metts: Three. Mr. Kutz: And when you cook, how many will you have, probably? Jean Me -tts: We_ will probably have 10 people working there but they won't all be coming in 10 cars. We will have people to .carpool and that sort of thing. What we-hope will happen is that each night that we serve, a church will provide the meal, and they will be there to.prepare the food and that sort of the i£ it is necessany,.at course.,. Seminole Volunteer Enterprises is going to do that and then of course we'll only have thr_ee cars there. Ke -vin Hipes,: One. Aare_ question, Sean, you mentio -ned something about the railway and the potential of using some of their land fo-r parking, has there been any discussion with them? Jean.Metts: Yes, I have spoken with them and S have written to them. They are interested in renting it to use at a very high price which of course, we are a very small non - profit and we could not afford to do that. The rail is.rLot actively. being used there. I have not known of a train to comedown that track in two years. Jean Metts: When we .have the emergency -food as -sistance program, the food commodity distribution, we have 1200 households come to the office on that Monday and Wednesday. Maybe 800 households come on Monday, and 400 on MINUTE& PLANNING -AND ZONING COMAISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 7 Wednesday. We've never had a traffic jam or traffic complaint. I am always in touch with the Police Department and it has worked very well. Just as not all .1200 -come at.one.time, neither are all the -penple who -will eat come at the same time. It will be staggered. Mr_ Robert: Jean., would those clients who would be your.r_staurant patrons be enough difference, you mentioned tha.t, you know you have the 600 on the .one -day and.sometimes -more on the Wednesd of your monthly, but those people of- course would_ come iz) a car - so that they can, they wouldn't be able to walk home or take a -bicycle with sufficient amount of groceries, your current... ,Ms.. .Netts, -Some of them do wal k, -some of them pull carts, some of them do own bicycles, but most of them are in cars. Mr_ Roberta ..How much, what's the typical in your .cur•, -ent iope-ra.tion .do they, you mentioned the dried up potatoes, not the dried up potatoes, the delicious some kind of potatoes, what else would the get. Ms. Metts: You mean the meal that I am preparing? Mr. Robert: No, what your people, your current clients. Ms. Metts: We have, om, small three pounds hams, they would not get a five .pound t x ng of . pntatoes -fox -one - fami.ly,, ..they .would .get about a two pound hag of. potatoea,. they get peanut butter,- bzead, greezt beans, corn, cereal, and whatever we have picked up from the de -li - at Publ- ix,- -li.ke salads, cake-, - VLes, cookies, that sort of thing. Mr. Robert: Thank you. .Mr. Kutz: Jean, have -you talked with the City's Building Department about what it is-going.to take to modify the building to make it into a restaurant to meet the code requirements. Ms._. Me_tts-_ We .have_ already dons that_ we have a, beautiful eating area and an up to the minute kitchen, with all.ne-w appliances, just waiting for this parking variance. Mr. Kutz: Have you discussed with them what -you have to do to satisfy the various codes to have a restaurant? Ms. Metts: Yes I have, we've met them. Mr. Kutz: You have a two hour fire wall, and... Ms. Metts: We have been okayed by the Fire Marshall. We have the range hood, we have. a- sprinkler system thraughout. the building, which by the way, I don't think City Hall has, but we do, We have every We have beautiful public bathrooms, we have a wheel chair ramp. I invite you all to come and see this building. We are very proud of it. Mike_ Skatt Jean_ I. have a couple. o.f guick motions.- I know you've been up here talking a lot so I'm not going to take a lot of your time anymore. I MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 8 just, what's the seating, toe expected seating? Jean Metts: 200. Mike Skat: 200 at one time? Jean Metts: Yes, so that's why the 50 parking spaces. Mike Skat: Do you know how many other similar programs are operating within -5. to 10 miles .of.this,area_- I - mean, -I'm just .trying to get a. feel of how many. -Ms. Metts: .I-know that Mother Weaver has -a meal program on way down on 13t Street. I believe she is only able to feed those people that reside there. And -I know that .Holy Cxo- ssEpiscopal Church has a Grace and Grits pragzam.on Wednesday. afternoons_ There is one on Elm at Reverend Rocker's Church -_ What I -am hoping to do -is to have these people -who are further into the Historic District, the days that they are serving, come and use our ..facility, and that would even eliminate those .people go even closer in into the Historic District. We have talked about that. Mike -Skat: Sn the -SC -3 study that y-ou -spoke cf, .that actually only Rick Colgrove and now Commissioner McClanahan axe the only two people that voted on .that., all those other people dropped.off that board_and -not are even involved in it_ The main tbxus hehind that was, just to Let you know, was to freeze tax dollars, that Why they re because home- ]..ess people happened to own property down there. Their justification, if you will, my belief is, they didn't .want adequate parking because the buil were.sa uno ccupied , inr111din their- own, bui]_dings, that they. saw the re for parking as a negative -and they didn't feel_ -._ -.I was involved in this and my opinion was very much ...... and staff... Ms_ Metts, There.is. another one of _these vnmewh re, I could not locate it, and they said they couldn't recommend anything because there was no parking area. Mr. Skat: Yeah., I mean, anyone, those two people specifically owned pragerty down.. th to make the r_ say that there's not a parking problem in downtown Sanford is insane, .I have a que stion .for. Staff. _ When the - church came through dorm on tat Street, the request for a church, at one point in time, never got this. I was wondering. Jay Marder: No request: Mike Skat: Then .I.guess the -last question.l have and it relates to the existing operation that you have there now is the distrihution of food how to the needy people right now. If in fact, those.people I guess, supposedly, if you _re saying that they have homes_, etc. why don't they just come and get the food from the distribution center and take it home and cook it rather-than having to go to a meeting place. Ms. Metts: The people who will be coming to our meal site may not, they won't all- be_ the cams peoples- We. hope that we- wiII g_t the AFDC mothers who are working for minimum wage because they can't do any better than that. MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 9 Mike Skat: What you are saying is that they don't really have time to cook, probably. I mean, if they are residing somewhere where there is a stove and a refrigerator, they can use the food distribution_ operation that you have there existing. Is that right? It seems tome if someone got a refrigerator and stove, the best alternative for them is to come here and.pick up food and take it home and cook it. Jean Metts: We don't mean that people who can - prepare things, a lot of these people- who wi -11 becoming to eat are on walkers. I have been to the other food, where they have meals, its like a family night church supper, you have- people- a ring im- an walkers, peaple who would find it difficult to be able to prepare a meal. Of course there is always go to be someone whose going to misuse a program. Mike Skat: It just sounds to me like there is a lot of contradiction in what you say there though_ If someone l4 n g in an a walker or wheelchair then obviously their .going to be coming via vehicle, mot siding a bicycle. I have- grave concerns- about 14 parking- spaces. being able to handle 200 people, quite honestly. Whether they are riding bicycles, you know with the prolif eration_of hu_y here pay here car lots, all of them are going to have cars eventually anyway, so, T just feel like.... Ms. Metts: They are coming in cars now. Mr. Skat: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. To me., 14 spaces.jus.t seems g assly ina loquate for 200. seats_ I mean, you know- Yau asked about the bistro, they use a lot of the City.parking, Whew you looms at it, at that time of night the streets are very empty, the parking spaces arg very empty. So, I think it is a bit of a battle as far as the number of spaces given the seating capacity for what you want to do. Does anyone else have any comments or questions? Ms. Metts: Keep in mind those 14 spaces do -not include the - -- south -side o€ the building in that big area which I am using. Mike -Skat; .Yeah, .I'm jiist zaying I -mean _if you got ..1D employees in there and Leta say 5 of th dzive so. you're down to 9 spaces trying to serve 200 people. Doesn't seem like the numbers work very well. Jean Metts: We have that capacity that doesn't mean that there will be 200 people there everytime we open the door nor will all a00 come at once. Mike. Skat,-_ Anyone else? Aayame else whso would like to speak in favor of the request. Please step forward, give us your-name and address - for the record. My name is -Doreen Freeman., 1_ 11ve at .705 _Mellonvil -le Avenue, I had the diatiz.ct pleasure to serve at Qae of the functions that Jean had for the -Chamber members and .other people. -I believe them was -about 75 people there, Jean, or even 100. And I don't think parking was not a problem. I think Jean will be serving probably, you're looking at may be 25 to 3a people at a.time. We haven't too many people coming to the facility at the same time and these are people you )snow you were talking about the distribution as compared to why would these people want to come to the restaurant if they can cook at lvahuT - P ZONING COM41SSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 10 home, you have to understand that what they get, once a month they get one three pound h and two pounds of po- tatoes and some can goods. Certainly, that is not going to provide a family for the whole month. So therefore, this would- he a ne eded suhsiiLy_ I. feel it is a very worthy one and she has done a fabulous job and I think y'all ought to approve it. Fir. Robert: Doreen, is what you are• saying that the USDA foods that you have,.you just got so many,.you need to _get more out. Uhkder the current system, you're only allowed to give them once a month, you couldn't give them twice? Ms. Freeman. I'm not sure how - the distribution works, but what I understand... ..Ms . Me tts:. It is only once a . month_ We have . to _dis r; bit as _the. -LTSBA tells us, and that's once a month. -Ms. Freeman: They are very limited -on -what they -get. I mean...three pounds of ham just doesn't go a very long way. Ms_ Aitree, 557 Rantoul Lan E+ in Lak e.Mary 1 via -been a volunteer for a year and its f-un.n_y that you' r.e as kiaig about what if. ld people show up, the volunteers have been the same volunteers that I have worked with. The people that even work there, one of them out of the three has a car, the other person .takes the bus or uses the vehicle the one truck that we have .to- go n1 ac- es- - The woman that c omea in and cooks and. the different p like chefs, that people tha do conk and prepare all these, also -are elderly and do not have cars. You're talking about Senior Volunteers, RSVP,. which is the Retired Seniox Citizens that volunteer, .they_dian't drive, They. -have someone drive them.. And_ another- t hing too, when we work with_ these people, honestly, there _is like on woman that brings -like -10- people from.her trailer park and so you will see we will feed 80 to 100 people emergency food and they come in vehicles and its funny because before . T -saw that .I see the_ : same thing ym u're- s pP� _ They litezalLy take their. bags. or_ use baby strollers, fill them up and walk hone, this is th food. You - now who these are, their not homeless, their working. There are not grants for them because they are average people. -People that j.us.t.basically, .what.- we..dn and I've seen that almost 70.$ is dust people that fell through the cracks. People that only get 400 or $50-0. And you know what, .people iion't just need at Thanksgiving and Christmas, when they have those food drives or if Second Harvest helps, they need everyday.. And this restaurant thing, .even if.you are a working w oman - that makes a_ Lot of money, o_k. it is hard to come home and feed a family. Its really a nice thing, that's why people go to their church. And that's really all that she is trying to do. I really hope that you would approve for like real people that need it, this parking. _ Andrew Kut2: I hear that you can only hand out food once a month but with the restaurant you can hand out food every day? Ms. Acree: There is emergency food. There are people that come every single day.. They hand out _a-package which i.s to.help them beZLre and c3"r _ t$e time ti]_ tha end of the month. Just like if people. don't get paid for two weeks and they still have a job to do. MINUTES PLANU.ING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 11 Mr. Kutz_: What you are telling.... me .i.s that you rare _hand out small quantities everyday but there is one major hand out every month. Is that what I heard {ghat what's goes on? Ms. Acree: Yes, they have two days, the Monday and Wednesday of every month. So its once a month. That's all that we are allowed to do. Jean Metts: That the USDA Food rules. Ms-. Acre: All the eme- rgency foods comes from donations, like she explained. The volunteers.go to Publix and 5:00 in the morning and pick up the bread- and deli, that'a what we get- But the t hing s that we are restricted on when we can give out the big jars .of peanut -butter, or the hams, or the turkeys, or whatever they give us. Andrew Kutz: So where will the restaurant food come from? That's not going to be USDA food. Ms. Acree, Tts doing to come from gublix and the-other donations. For example... Mr. Kutz: So are going to actually have to have more storage capacity. Ms. Acree: -We have it, we have the space_ YQu really need to see it, its - incredible to see this rat, torn down building of what its become. Its lover,, its unbelievable. space. Ms. Metts: We have a walk in freezer and a walk in cooler. Om,,pleaty of Mr_ Kutz. I just ah, I can't get -the picture -out of my mind that you have, you're handing out small quantities now to people that come in on a daily -bas is, an emergency .basis, an d..thi-s is stuff that -you collect locally. And once a_ month yQu_have &. major distribution and you load up and take the stuff out and -makes sure this happens over a one --day -or two day period. You said two days, Mondays and Wednesdays. Ms. .Acree: We don't deliver. They came or, -like-the, Christian _-Sharing Center., we b ring things there_ You know they have the woman's shelters, the Harbor House, different homes that we bring it to and different churches. AzLdrew Katz: Now what I'm hearing is that we are going to have a _restaurant where people ir e .go to -come .everyday -so -now we have to go out and.callect m r-e food for the people that are going to come everyday. The quantity of food whodly separate.... Ms. Metts: Don't worry about the food, we'll get it. Ms_ Acree, That's what volunteers.,.there are good p eopl e nut these thexe.are a- lot o£ rea whfl have offered theiz chefs and different people to -come- Italian x st pizza -places -have offered, you know. People want to help.. And this is what we're all about volunteering, we're all about having a heart and that's really what its about. And I guess I also MINUTES- MDANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 12 felt the same by not - understanding unless you -see -an• average person that makes $8 an hour, and at the end of the month.... Mr._ .Yutz- You misunderstand tee, 1 agree, -1 think shat you are doing is iacredihly admirable anal it's a model. thing tQ do. in the co I think part of our problem is that. we have - a responsibility to the• - rest - of - the community. We are just trying to see to it that you don't negatively impact the people .around you by b in when there's no parking for that sort of thing. Mr, Scat- Its .real good .to.. get .an -idea, to-hear ghat you do because we have this vision of people driving up everyday to get the food distribution .and cm .top of that you got the restaurant, -I. -its, that's why we need to understand what the business side of it is. Ms.- Acree: You-have a - picture -of -the side -of-the building. -In that -area don't you think, even when they do food distribution, there is somebody that sits outside and checks, but don't you think that that Kould fit easily. Mr. Skat: I'm just trying to get a handle on the volume of it. That's the thing that concerns me. Ms. Acree: The volume of it, honestly, is people don't have cars. The volunt .eex don! t- even hav cams_ and i£ some of the letters that are written from the.mail list, .even getting to a grocery store .would cost more than $7 each way. Ms. Metts: Of the USDA food, we distribute approximately to 2000 households per. month- We have be doing that s i nce. 1992 and we have done that since we have been im this b ?»l dinn gr We haven't i. ssed a single month. Of the. €oad pantry that' s the daily he1p we_' re open dai1�, I don' t mean that people come on Monday, and come back Tuesday and Wednesday and so forth, they are different people who are coming. We do approximately 600 households per month. Mr. Marder: -Just far .clarification, I ]snow there KS been -some figures tossed around about the poverty and I just wanted to state that as of the -1990 Census . there were 32, 3B.7 . peopple - n the .City -of Sanford. The poverty status was_ dete far 31,11a persons as of 19E19, is the way they do this. And the number of- persons determined .to be- below -the poverty level was 5,061, which is 16.3 %. I just wanted to put this on record. The overall Seminole County figure is in the single digits, percentage wide. Ma- Wetts< We serve all. af_ S.eminaLe County, or. ar_ganization does. We have the food commodities we take to Oviedo, -St. Johns V -1lage -in -Fern -Park, the Mental Health facility, Teen Challenge, Bram Towers, Geneva Gardens, Redd Gardens_ We de- ivex the .food to them and they distribute it at the site. There are volunteers at each of the sites so that those people don't have to come to the office. Mike Skat: Jean, lets back track for a second, you said at your other facility ypu. r oughl y 2Q04.ha usPhold.4 per. month- Lo. you have another operation other than this one prior to coming in and trying to establish the MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 13 one on 4 Street. 1992. Ms_ - Me -tts: Yes, we werE in the old 7.ayze Plaza_ We started there in Mr. Skat: Thanks. O.K. -Any other questions? There being none, anyone else to speak in favor of the request? There being no, anyone that would like to speak in opposition to the request? I'm Steven. Myers,. I live at 718 Oak_ Avenue.. I'd like to start off by .say .that I want -to make sure that .I peraonal-ly -not - interpreted as being against helping people or against all of the things Ms. Metts have done, worked f and ..stand s.fiar_ J think .every the volunteers in any community da that - serves tha people less fortunate is a commendable thing. However, I do express aggravation as .a ho¢neowner regarding some-.f the issues surrounding zoning in our city and where different operations are allowed to move in and set. -up shop or are .pex-mttted to, .to.begin. with, because the zoning and land use neads to be r_evis -ed. The laoa.tiou, in, my mind, is too close to the -residential area. I.be1a_eva that even.though -this is -a permitted use, the location is not appropriate for the use that is taking place right now let alone the use that is -ought after -now or any_othez future uses. I see a level of_ activity here that in my mind, i. not appropriate for our area and there's expanded use that are sought tonight_ I. understand that this only around the parking but it is also part of permitting this usage and it may also lean -to other usages that could further- imp act our -neighborhood. One of the arguments that 1. heard tonight was am,- discussions about special functions downtown in regaxd:ing the parking - and - using various areas for parking for special functions. In my mind, that is quite fine, I can deal with 4 of July once a year, or .Oktoberfest Dace a year., or some -of that nature. I can. deal_ wi.tb, that impact and those are positive impacts in my mind even though sae -have to tolerate some inconven- fences, -I think- om, those minor inconveniences are better for our area, both local to the Historic District as well as the whole City, But..l wouldn't want to.have.to..deal with this type of inconvezj_ences day in- and day out in. my immadiate residential neighborhood. So for this reason and some .of -the others that 1 -have stated, this is why I request that you deny this variance. Thank you. Ms. Dennison. Yes, -Mr, Myers, what do you .see as an noL venience -to .you regarding this facility in your neighborhood? Mr-. Myers Well -I -have been a resident-of-the City of Sanford for roughly.10 years now. When we first moved into the neighborhood, we didn't only. have a.problem..with dirty., trashy.streets.and tbing of that nature, but we also had a problem with the tr amount of foot traffic. Good and bad people alike. Om, people who were just - transient through the neighborhood. Going from one area to another for a whole myriad of reasons. Ms. Dennison: And this is on Oak Avenue? Mr_ Myers Qa_k Avenue. Now over. the years as we. have worked diligently as.a group to clean up the neighborhood both - .trash wi", codes, zoning, om in almost every aspect imaginable. Its consequently reduced the amount of what I would consider the type of foot traffic that can cause problems. And, again, MINUTES - PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 14 1-don't want to be fastened to the- pi -geon -holes where-this is somebody who just doesn't like poor people, that's not the case. But the point is, though, that like it or .not, -when you hav-e - people who are .attracted -to the area for whatever, r_eaaon be it th-e daily labor pool or. food establishment, inevitably, like it or not, no matter how. hard you work -and how wel-1 mea ning -you -arm, you're going to attract a certain percentage of people that you don't want. That's even .if ,lean . Metts doesn't -,rant . it, _ if you _don' t - want it and if I don't want it, inevitably it attracts a certain.percentage of that type of person who is -going to contribute to the crime-or the disorderliness of the neighborhood. .Ms.. -D 5o you're saying that _a -Lot -o -f pars who frequent Ms. Metts_' estab]ishmeut.than come. from your. -neighborhood i.e- the foot traffic by your house. Mr. Myers: Through my neighborhood. That's a_.distinct possibility whether its Mean Metts' F--- , tabJ ichmPn or..s -ome. o£ the services that the churches do. I can not tell you because they don't have their name printed on the bag as they are walking through the- neighborhood but, inevitably, it means the establishment will increase or continue the level of foot traffic and a c.e centaga of that foot traffic is bound to create a negative result in the neighborhood. Did I answer your question, I'm sorry. Ms. Dennison: We-11, I'm afraid I don't unde- rstand, you. I don't understand how from 4:30 tp 7:00.people passing by on the street is going to i nn anc you_ Ohviaualy, people_ who live in_ the. np-ighh orhood are also pass by in their oars coming from work and what -have you. There would be a certain amount of traffic. I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Mr. Myers: I guess the way that I am looking at this, Ms. Dennison, is that we all have traffic in our neighborhood from our automobiles, o.k. Ms. Dennison: And.people walking by, walking theia.doga,. and. children playing, that's a neighborhood. Mr. Myers: But you wouldn't want a 800 apartment unit complex to be built next. doom of .Di.sae_y World to build theiz neK theme park down the street from you because that increased traffic is going to cause problems for you. Ms: Dennison -: But I'm loo -king at the dis.paragia bets your address and Ms. Metts' establishment, that's why I say if there are ao many people coming by your. ne ighborhood. to get there then there coming out of your neighborhood or through your neighborhood to get there... Mr. Myers.: I am not aware of where each individual lives who come through my neighborhood but I would think that to a certain degree that a n umber of these people live outside the neighborhood but travel through the neighborhood to get to a location such as this. Ms. Dennison: But, here again, you don't know that they are going to Ms. Metts do you? Mr., Myers. . Na, . and .1 can _definitely -say that they are-, not- I ..know- from being a resident in my azea for 10 years, I know that there have been direct MIIIUFE S PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 15 correlations between things like crime control on Sanford Avenue to crime cantsal on 17 -92, levels of prostitution and drug activity in any area which are several blocks away from my house, yet any of these things can generate a ce -rtain level of activity in qty neighbor-hood-just because of the movement of people from one .place to another. Even though.neither one. of the..places, 5anfard- Avenue /L7 -92 -or this facd.establishment is newt door to me or down the street one block, but.-just by the virtue that these-ar-eas produce certain types of activities, or generate certain levels of traffic,, it still impacts my area. And I have a concern about the ability of this establishment to have an_ appr_o ate amount of pa rkinq. at 14. spaces. I- feed that right now the level of activity tar exceeds what they already have let.alone increasing this to a 2GO seat ope- ration even though one may -have good intentions even though one may say well we're . going to stagger things like this but the bottom line is that once. y_cu p ermit this and- whLeth_e c its done intentionally or not, the opportunity is still there to have 20.0 cars these. TherE'-s no limit once this is permitted then this is a possibility that we are facing. once it is permitted it is pretty tough going back. Ms__ D ennison! L raarant you they won't put 200 cars there. Mr. Myers: Well my point though, my point is... Ms. Dennison: They are going to be lucky if they put 14 there. Mr. Robert: Mr. Myers, I do have a question. Ms. Metts testified earlier t onT hers that she either ncyu has,. I:m.nat surer, or intended that the people that live in apartments, -in the Historic - District, the..poor people,_ would be able to utilize her facility.- That is there arse qualified people that live in.your neighborhood. Now, all I can think of, the top of my head Z'm thi nom. Fl ri cia Hotel, exar tLy tw(a blocks nnzth of you, which is a big problem, a crime .problem here for lots of .years, _it is .a -big burden on our City gali Department, but-, do you have. any knowledge, do those people, would they be the kind who currently utilize her services or might utilize the new if she has a restaurant. Mr. Myers: Well Mr. Robert, I don't think either one of.us nr.anyhody.in_ this room is- expert enough to definitively say how many people from that establishment would utilize the services. I really don't know how to respond to that question. I suspect a number would. Ms. Metts:.I -can tell you that a_number do because _we have the name and address of every person who comes through our facility. Ms. Skat: I'd like to ask the Commission that any more discussion kind of center amound the. pax3cing issue not the_ functions of this facility. We are starting to stray a little bit of what the request is. I think it is impo rtant to unders-tand the concern& cf the residents because one of the issues of the Dimensional Variance is its impact on the ,surrounding property so we- need- to hear that past a£ it but we need to kind of stick to our questions relating to the parking itself. Thank you. Mr. Hipes: Steve, how far is your home from this establishment? Mr. Myers: Its approximately 4/5 blocks. Mr. Hipes: So would the restaurant parking, if approved at this site, MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING CONAIISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 16 would that impact you being -abl-e to park -in. front of your home or family and friends being able to visit you. Mr. .Myers- -No, it - wouldn't_ The mature -of .my -opposition would be the permirtted_ variance would allow higher traffic in the area that would be a detriment to the neighborhood as a whole. Fred Batcher, 305 S. Park Avenue: Again I understand what Jean is trying to do to feed -the .people, but we're .going to .stick on the .parking issues here. I_ have a house at 604.5_ Elm Avenue,. one hlock,. one corner, two blocks down from .her_ My tenant- -has called - me,twice - since -she's -been there complaining about people carrying boxes of groceries into their car, getting into their cars and leaving. Taking up parking spa ces .in -front -of those resi. nre.g_ .I can't to]er-ate aomplainta fx_om my tenants, number- one. I also have a house on 3 and Park nm, and - have the -property all the -way to the corner to the Episcopal Church parking lot. on any given Wednesday, the Church owns that whole side lot -fox, paxking,.of course. they .are.nat..handl.ing as many people as Jea.z weuts to, but the voluateer there take. 6 tQ 1Q cars, some weeks. Some weeks four cars. Some -weeks they ha to- fill-that -lot for some people to come and eat, some weeks its empty. We are working with an unknown variable here. I stand firm that she needs 50 spares. Thank you. Mr. S_kat: ZFed, I have a question for you though, it relates to ah, what's the address on maniac mansion? Mr. Batcher: 309. Mr,..Skat- one time.wasn ".t there -a heauf3r Par lor -that was being looked on as going in at 309? Mr. Batcher: The beauty parlor was in there from 1928 to 1971. Mr-. Skat: Did we not have a request in front of us at one point in time that was de�iied over parking. Mr. Robert: We denied it. Good .evening, my name is Marlene , Kelly, .I live on Magno -lia- and - -4 -the street address is 321 Magnolia, I live directly behind the Episcopal Church. My .issue is mot with Jean Metts, it is with _the..pax Everytime I have comp hefnr-e t his Boar-d. and other boards., my issue has been with parking. Om, -Ms. Mietts .states that .she needs _50 park<in.g - spaces, -she states that she is currently thinking about using this property that is right next to the railroad, without -their .pexmission, which is of course .a .1iability.factos._ -my . concern_ is that even though she states she has 11 parking spaces, I live next to the Episcopal Church, and I can tell you that one -night I did take it upon myself because I thought that this issue might come up, this was about 5 weeks ago- These was an average .of .30 cars .f roTm 5„OD until they shut down at raughl_y a quar ter- to 7:00. Now, that was dust cars cars and trucks. I tracked that ev ening , and I don't -have that paperwork with me unfortunately, that evening there were roughly 20 people foot traffic, 5 bicycles and roughly an average of 3D cars. Some of those .cans had .18 people come out .c.£ them, - some of them only had on-e peraon come out of them. aut realistically speak the Episcopal Church has a parking lot next door. They fill the parking lot MINUTES TUdDL14 AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 17 and they -fill -al -1 the - spaces. There Is tome issues as far as that goes because L would_ travel. 4t' Street past. hex. house chlxing that time period coming-ho-e fr work_ -I .have .a _prob _navigating that area on Wednesday night. I go around the block to get to my house. Most of the time I can't park In front of ray house _because _of _people - taking the par s .,spaces. • Nhich realistically they are going to park. close to the church so they can get there. There.is also an -issue of -children that are going to the facility and there is not adequate parking as you know on the streets. When both sides of our streets .are .full,.with cars parking tan Beth sides_, _its hard to see, its hax-d1 to navigate those streets to have two cars h. able to pass each other in those areas_ The .children have a tendency to - --ome -out of there, sometimes their watched, sometimes their not watched,. I cannot tell you how many children I have ..seen come c-lo -se to . being seriously Injused- in .these situa - L have voiced. that to. the Ep iacopal people . .... It does make it difficult to travel through there. Its go -ing to•be hard for public utility equipment, such as fire trucks which usually normally run that route to go to the other, side of .town, to .get through those area .. YAez it will impact my residence_ L am going to have. to find- a different way to get home from work. It is. not -a big issue for one .night a week_, I - don'-t- -have a problem doing that, but iii a meeting that I was in with Ms. Metts, she was talking about initially she was.going to do it several nights a week, possibly several days - a week, - and if she felt the need was appropriate,, she would increase this to 7 nights a week and 7 days a week. That's -a-huge impact. That's why I would propose that it be denied. Kevin Hipes: Your home is how close to this establishment? Ms. Kelly: Roughly four blocks, may be less. Mr_..Hipes.- Will this .request fact the . fxont �o your home for you and your family? Ms. Kelly: Not. as . it stands at this momen but ads a_ paxsa , who, is already affected by a one night a week facility. I am directly catty corner from the Church. Because of that fact, .I ran tell you that if affects everyone within a two block radius of that facility and they have more adequate parking than Ms. Metts does. My name` is Bart Rush, I reside at 90.4 S-_ Pack Avenue, I also have a .business- at 105 E. 1' Street -in -Downtown Sanford. In -1 -987 I chartered an org i 7 at i = called , wbi c;h- stood for -DoNntown_ Services .Council_..of Duval _I County- Our mi ion, as i� Mean Matte was to provide food and services for as many people as we could that were, we thought as-categorized as the wo -rking paar thaw_ that- needed the facilities that we could grant in a very limited amount of space. We started the organization in a basement of a First Pre.shytemian. Chi 1rch in Downtown- Jajakcnn 11 e , at the time in which I was an elder. We quickly outgrew the facility and began looking for larger fa-r-i1it -Les. and began_ to louk for coa exat i-ve efforts because when you begin to feed the working poor you realize there are more working poor than you ever thought i marrinahle - And so we_ counted. on. the. advice of people who had organized and developed these kinds of organizations nationwide. We sought the wisdom of organizations in Washington DC and aem Francisco, Toronto. We wrote letters and had conference calls and even had some Qf them come visit dackson_ui1La_ Cm, we want through_ weekends of s eminara with_ these people who all told us basically the same thing. And that was when you're looking for a MINUTES PLANNING AI9D ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 18 facility where people can reach you easily and where you will not impact negative-Ly, people who could ultimateLy stand beside you. and volunteer to help the organization, their Sri ex one re c ommen at; ons . and -this was a particular seminar. we - went. to that we- held in Jackson_vi.lI e. We were honored to have at our guests, Jimmy Carter and his wife Rosalind. They both told us unequ; vocally keep it out af_ a- reai dential area and by all means keep it out of a historical residential area. Number one because you want to serve as many people- that arm truly nejady of your facilities as possible. And you want residents in the surrounding area to be you= supporters and to stand shoulder to shoulder and help you with what your over mi- sian is. Om, and we listened intently to that advice. And so with the help of the churches in the area, we- finally found a facility that was- given to us by the Duvall County School Board out by what is now known as Alltown Stadium, which at the time w as the` Gat or Rawl_ This became one of the largest, in twelve years, became one of the largest facilities in the southeast to provide food, medical, dental, and facilities - for tbe- w o -rking poor _ I am very proud to say it was twelve years of literal blood, sweat and tears to the greatest number of, help t,a the greatest numh of people in DLxvalI Caunty, We all served .people outside of Duvall County and I was very proud to be a charter member of that ar gan ; mat; nn __ So- I know the s tmig gles. that Ms.t Me-tts faces on a daily basis. I also know, and are appreciative of the struggle-s the people of the Iiiatoric District face. daily and nightly from traffic that is generated by this incredible, as Ms. Metts has stated, facility. She hands out a mass amount of food to people- and that is adm; rah le, its kind of a band aid to the situation, but it does help. But, it seems to me that thQ facility is headed in the directi that fast out wei the need that is being provided at this time. Which tells me that the facility is headed somewhere that we're not being told- of at this time.._ Tr amo of mone and square footage are being invested into somewhere of this facility that's going. As a modest heck; ninlnq this. fare l ; t y would he approp riate_ But its. headed to majorly impact in a negative way the surrounding neighborhood and Sanford as a whole, in my opinion I known thi s, from s tud Ps. that were done from people much more knowledgeable than myself, or even Jean Metts, about successfully, at=elasful-lX sett up facilities l i ke this with_ zero negative impact on the neighborhood. Om, she says that she is prepared to open this restaurant and liar all the- approval of cndea and yet today tha Division of Hotel and Motel does not have a record of a license applied for by Ms. Letts' volunteer organization and she will need that license to be able to hook up that stove that she has. Om, Mr. Skat: I. think we know all the .issues that ,evolve around the use and things like that but, I mean I'd like to hear your spin on the parking variance. Mr. Rush: This has been my first opportunity to speak on the issue. And so why I respect the- fart- you've heard- many, many times,, however, this is my first time. So I'd like to .... my particular feelings as others has had the oppc r:tunity to do L but I respect that, Mike, and I'll get to the point. Om, the fact is Ms. Metts and organizations like hers still need to abide by codes and restrictions that apply and not only to the area that �,s zone but to the Historic District as well. And I have a restaurant, myself. I've applied and ohtained the pxoper licenses and are curmently nerving, and I had to look for facilities that provided adequate parking so I wouldn't have to apply for- a variance and have negative impact on the neighborhood. That's why I would MINUTES PLANNING. AND Z.ONIIIG C ONMTZS1LN MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 pnr_F IQ respe.ctfully.reques.t that you deny the variance an additio parking. It is needed, as I said in my presentation, this organization is headed in a direction and all indications are hecause - of .zquare footage and because of expanded services that parking is going to be required that people are and like you, Mr. Skat, shave heard many contradictions the. -way people - .egress .and enter this property whether by walker or bicycle or car, we've all seen various ways and car is certainly one of them. And so I think these parking spaces are required as were mine. I had to look for a location that had those parking space-s and that's why I chose.l't Street . downtxaaz3 . I would respectfully request that you deny this variance and thank you for your time. Mr. Skat: Anyone else wish to..speak in opposition.. 'There being none I will have Jean come back up to give you a chance to rebut any those ...that were brought up. Ms. Metts: The only thing I have to say in rebuttal is just to remind you that ous zoning clas sification is SG -3 Special Commercial 3, it is not residential. Under the permitted uses is a restaurant and that says it all. Mr_ Sipes: Jean, you have indicated that you're gonna have seating for as many as X00 in the facility. M- %..Metts: That's -what the Fire.Depaxtmeiit..says . we can seat. I doubt that we will ever have that many people in there. Mr. Hipes: How many do you think that you will seat, i-E you had a peak. period, how many do you think will actually come to the meal? Ms. Metts: 30. Mr, Hipes: Would you be om, cause parking obviously is an issue, would you-be opposed to some form. of limitati that you won't have available any more than 100 seats, or something like that? That would certainly mitigate the. pct.ent far your estimations and your .... do not certainly exceed what these folks are sincerely worried about. Ms._ Matte_ The only reason we� used- the 200 fi is because of the amount of space that we have there. The building is 8.,500 square feet and this is what the Fire Department suggested I go with. Mr. Hipes: Would d - you feel uncomfortable not having more than 100 tables and chairs? Would you feel that would limit your capacity to serve? Ms. Metts: We don't have that many now. Mr. Hipe-s: How many chairs will actually be out at any one time right now? Ms. Meths: We'd go for 100. Mr. Hipes: So you wouldn't be uncomfortable with a limitation, since this is a parking varian we_' r-- t alkie about park ing issues and certainly dropping the potential seating capacity of 200 to 100 would certainly give a lot more comfort to the neighbors. 14INUTES PLANNING -AND ZONING COMMIISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 20 Ms. Metts: I have no problem with that. Mr. Hipes: Thank you very much. Mr. Skat.. .I have a couple .of gue s.t1o ns -f r -Staff if I may take the liberty to ask. I've been on for 7 years so I'm trying to recall the SC -3 projects that we've had in. The Pacesetter Labor Pgol when it came in. Mr. Marder: I don't think it ever got to Mr. Skat: But they found the compliant parking. Mr. Marder: I think they rented some parking in an adjacent space. Mr_ Skat. And just to, clarify if this on, application the Dimensional Variance is granted, it goes its contiguous with this property if this group moves out conceivably.you could have-any rest = ve in there and provide restaurant services and utilize x number of spaces 100, 200 whatever. Mr_ Marder: We've been told that we.can_ put time.limits.•and other conditions on these types of approvals but we can't place conditions on particular owners, one person over another person. Mr. Ska-t. Sea I, Ir mean_ Z just have a concern that if you approve this with, you know, for this existing facility and ,lean decide -s she finds another location, suddenly you got a restaurant coming in here, we've already approved it and even if we set a.provision that it.doesn't tra vel, it travels with her, the owners for her possession o£ the property, the next guy comes in with a restaurant and says look you gave it to a not for profit, I'm a. for profit, I'm paying taxes, you know, give me the capacity and you know then I think you do have a problem, I think you have a big problem. Mr. Hipes: Jay, you mention there could be time lines put on this. Mr. Marder: Yes sir. Mr. Hipes: Cause from what I'm hearing there's certainly a difference of ininn a% to what the- impac of the parking. is going to be between the community and the service here. This is a non-profit orgy tz- ati_on. Its motive is really just to serve the- comrmini n.ot necessarily to make money at the risk of hurting the co I mean I am personally in favor of this app.lir_atlnn as long as we protect the con muni by two things, may be limiting to 100 rather than 200 which reduces it by 50% no matter how successful or how it is successful._ Secondly, putt a time frame on- it, may be 1 year and in a year, certainly that 100 seat fills capacity and it is being detrimental to the- nP� rhood we cam certainly at that point pull t$e application by then knowing exactly what the impact is rather than trying to- guess. That's.-just. my personal opinion. Mike Skat: If there's no more discussion then we might as well go right into the votes, so I'll ask the Coranission if someone's got a motion. Ross Robert: I'd like to make a motion to deny, to deny the request, its MINUTES PILANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 21 laudable that the current organization Jean Metts volunteer Enterprises has operated over two years at the current site, previous to that for four years or more out at the Zayre's Plaza, and she joins the rather_ elite. group of people helping in_ the comet n ; ty, probably Thelma Mike' Good Samaritan Home, course Mother Blanche Weaver's Rescue Church of God, and the things they do out there; also laudable and help the needy_ But in this particular case, this intense, this is a change of intensity of use and its enough of a change without enough parking and there isn't a justification under our rules for the standards for consideration of dimensional variances. Not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 do we £inci the �usti.£icatinn_ and based on our own rules I move to deny and that include all of the Staff's recommenfiiations as a reason. Andrew Kutz: I'll second it. Mike Skat: We have a motion and a second, we're in discussion. My concern i3 not witb_ so muck-. th-e use as the future. impact of the co mmun ity, and I got to tell you whether it's a not for profit being in here or for profit or whatever, the space is. too big with the limited number of parking spaces. And when I think about what we got in the other SC -3 in terms of restaurants and uses, the numbers are not even. near this. in terms of capacity that the places seat, so, we don't have any comparable and every other SCr3 that we've hacL in has gone. out and complied with the parker re quirements _ I think its, cause we've said on yard widths, setbacks, etc. the rules are there for a reason. I disagree wi- th_the way SC -3 rules are written anyway, but I do think we need to adhere to it and Commissioner Robert brought up a very .good point, I mean I went through_ the sip ata.ndards of consideration of . r4; men c lonal variance and I could really only find three that really applied, three that were very lacking for this. I have to somewhat agree with them on that. Mr. Robert: It is unreasonable to expect that the public records show that the prope-rty being worth $174,GQO and reaLis.t -L1Y even if that were correct could not see for $174 and relocate to another place. I think they are doing a fine job what they do now where they are. Mr. Skat: I agree. Any other comments. There being none. Mr. Kutz: I seconded, the motion and really the aply reason I seconded the motion is I really believe it is too interise of a use in that location_ I. don't think that that b uilding ,. that. particular site, is appropriate to support that activity, the new activity. It has all the patential to da we11 beyond its bounds but even if it doesn't grow, its asking too much of that in that location. At least that's my opinion. But for goodness sakes don't slow down and don't give up what you're doing, not for a minute. Mr. Skat: Any other comments_ I'll call for a vote. All those in favor. Four (4). Opposed. One (1). The motion succeeds and the request has been denied for the dimensional variance. For. Robert moved to approve the Minutes as circulated. Seconded by Ms. Dennison. All in favor. Mption carried. Mr. Gibson stated that Ms. Metts apparently has put together a report addressing the City standards for dimensional variances, however, she did not MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16, 1999 PAGE 22 introduce that into the r.ecoxid nox provide -Staff with that prior to the meeting. Mr. Mardes provided a map of the SC -3 the Social SesvicQ Benefit Facilities. The existing social service facilities are all dotted in. There is a 1500' radius around them. There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 9:05 PM Michael Slcat, Vice Chairman