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ZONING AND PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF SANFORD
July 10, 1969
City Commission Room, City Hall
7 :30 P.M.
Present Arthur H. Harris, Acting Chairman
B. C. (Cal) Conklin
Robert E. Karns
W. Garnett White
City Planner Gerald Dake
City Manager W. E. Knowles
Building Official Linvel J. Risner
Absent Donald G. Bishop, Jr.
John Daniels, Jr.
Jefferson R. Davis
Phillip H. Logan
Clifford W. McKibbin, Jr., Chairman
The Acting Chairman called the meeting to order.
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B. C. (Cal) Conklin was welcomed as a new member of
the Board.
Due to a lack of a quorum, the Acting Chairman announced
that business could not be officially handled and the meeting
would be for discussion purposes.
A. B. (Tommie ) Peterson, Jr., Chairman, Scenic Improvement
Board, appeared to request consideration of a recommendation of
said board to the City Commission for the rezoning of an area bounded
on the south by Fulton Street; on the east by Myrtle Avenue; on
the west by French Avenue; and on the north by Lake Monroe from
an M -1, light industrial, to C -2, general commercial.
Mr. Peterson outlined the basis of the request being to
phase out the "tank farm" in this area in order that the area
could be upgraded for compatibility with the C -2 zoning of the
downtown business district. Several oil companies in this
area have now closed down their operations and under the C -2
zoning they could not expand the M -1 use. Further, being a
non - conforming use and the business ceasing their operation
for a period of 6 months could not reactivate an M -1 use.
Minutes - Z & P
July 10, 1969 -2-
Although not mentioned by Mr. Peterson, a long range planning program
has been proposed that would make this area and other areas to the
west, along the lakefront, 4 Lake Monroe Recreational and Tourist
Park.
The members present were in accord with the request with
Mr. Peterson being informed that the matter would be placed on the
agenda of the next regular meeting for official recommendation.
Consideration was next given to a questionnaire submitted
for review by Gerald Dake, City Planning Consultant, for purposes of
introducing the planning program, through newspaper publication, and
to get the reactions of the citizens with their filling out the form
and returning to the city manager's office. More particularly
keyed to stimulate the interest of the public. Mr. Dake mentioned
that it could well be titled PLEASE HELP.US PLAN YOUR CITY. Some ,
members felt that the form was too broad and would be difficult to
categorize upon its return. Again, Mr. Dake emphasized it was to
stimulate interest and to get the public to thinking about their city
and future planning of it, and possibly with this leading later to
the setting up of a "public forum" sometime in September or October
with invitations to the City Commission, Chamber of Commerce, Merchants
Association and various civic groups for purposes of education.
Some members felt that that the questions could be more specific
with possibly a multiple choice and a check -off beside the choice of
one. A prize was suggested for the best answer to possibly one
particular question. Mr. Conklin felt that the questionnaire would
be utilized better by going to selective organizations or clubs who
would be willing to spend the time on such material as opposed to
the entire general public. He also suggested the adding of a few
more questions as to what the citizens want their city to be like.
Mr. White suggested that it might be well to add a question on
"consolidation" as to do the people feel that there is a duplication
of services and do we need a "central" or metro type of government.
The City Manager pointed out that to some people a pot hole
in front of their house might be a major problem to them and this
type of answer would be difficult to tabulate or evaluate. Mr. Karns
indicated that it could be sent out or printed in the original form
and then after general reviewing of the answers, the form could be
revised with "specifics" and then published again; this process being
more of a refining method. The Manager further stated that some
answers should not even be considered and pointed out that the general
public needs to have their horizons broadened as they are familiar only
with what is directly close to them and, therefore, you might have to
key a general question into a second questionnaire under a specific
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Minutes - Z & P
July 10, 1969 -
question as an example of a "street construction program ".
Mr. Dake again stated that he was not seeking any results from the
survey, but to stimulate interest; get the people thinking about
their community; who is their planning board; what do they do;
and then follow through with a public forum where the citizens
can come and then talk about these general items. A suggestion
was made to add a question of .. What would you like your City
to be like in 1985?
Harry Skopp was present and suggested t:
quizz per week be published in the paper with
"yes" or "no" as an example on moving the zoo
city hall. The Chairman mentioned that this
question of whether the citizen wanted his or
approximately 3 mills.
hat one question or
a box at the side for
or moving the
would involve a
her taxes increased
Upon finalizing the discussion, Mr. Dake was to take the
questionnaire back to Jacksonville with him for a re -write as
discussed.
Discussion was next given to steps to be undertaken to
get an Urban Renewal Program underway under the provision of
the new /I�gtglative general law allowing counties and municipalities
to prepare urban renewal programs and said programs to be placed
as a referendum on the ballot for the vote of the people and then
implemented upon majority vote.
The City Manager informed the Board that the City Commission
is now studying the proposed 1969 -70 Budget and that urban re-
newal projects of street construction, code enforcement, utility
construction, etc. appropriations had to be cut out due to the
state law on the freezing of the present millage and the limitation
or rollback to 10 mills in 1970. He also pointed out that the
voting public must be told what they are getting under an urban
renewal program on a referendum and how much it will cost.
Relating to urban renewal, the Building Official recommended
that an educational program should be considered on the level of
the board members as well as the citizens due to the enabling
act stating that if a referendum is called and it should fail,
another referendum cannot be presented for another 2 years;
therefore, a lot of ground work and education needs to precede
the placement of same on the ballot.
The City Manager pointed out that a municipality can only
do what their State Legislature allows them to do and, therefore,
municipalities are creatures of the State; your state laws being
different throughout your states; and you derive your authority
from state laws. He felt that the State of Florida, being a
Minutes - Z & P
July 10, 1969 -4
young state, will probably go through another evolution before
it catches up with the other states and what their laws allow
them to do. The City Planner stated that he would have to
take exception with the city manager in Florida's governmental
activities. An illustration being that, Florida is way out
in front in government by looking at the "metro" system which
is definitely an extremity, whether it be good or bad, and looking
at Jacksonville's consolidation, good or bad, it is one of the
prototype's in the country. Further, urban renewal has made
some great accomplishments in Tampa and Miami and he would predict
that Jacksonville during the next decade will have an outstanding
accomplishment. The City Manager pointed out that the Planner's
statement was supporting a prior statement, made by the city
manager, that the population density has made it a necessity
for the people to grow up and recognize these things in a hurry,
such as the Carolinas, Chicago, etc.
The City Planner stated that the discussion pointed out
the first question: "Do we want urban renewal in the City of
Sanford" and it appears evident that "we are not sure" and
possibly primarily because it is not understood. The Vice
Chairman stated that this might be because we do not know just
how much it will cost.
The Planner pointed out that there is just so much federal
money to go around and that if Sanford is going to get involved
it should be "now "; that we should not consider cost; but should
consider if Sanford has a sub - standard blighted area in the
community. Vice Chairman Harris stated that Sanford has been
through the blighted area problem with the federal Department of
Housing and Urban Development, Atlanta, Georgia, and the City
knows that there is such an area. However, there is a need
for a cost determination to see if the City can accomplish it
before same is placed on a referendum.
Planner Dake stated that it does not work in this manner
and we cannot determine how much it is going to cost. We don't
know what the program is going to be. We can't determine what
the program is gong to be until we go through the long and ex-
hausted costly steps of doing the S &P (survey and planning)
and determine what it is going to cost us. The Vice Chairman
then questioned that since an area had been determined by HUD,
why couldn't a "ball park" figure be arrived at for the area
designated as urban renewal. He felt that the public must be
informed that "X" number of dollars is needed for a designated
urban renewal program.
Minutes - Z & P
July 10, 1969 -5-
The Planner explained that once the program is off the
ground then the money can come from "credits" and cost the
City nothing out of pocket directly. Where the cost comes
is in the survey and planning portion of it and in putting
the data and material and getting underway. He emphasized
that with a street construction plan and a drainage plan the
City has the makings for an urban renewal program now. But
that we would need about $50,000 or 1k mill to get people
(administrative personnel) started on the urban renewal program.
The Planner stated that you must keep in mind that you
schedule your improvements correctly so that you keep building
on the "credits" all the time and do not lose them. Further
stating that Sanford could work in the renewal program for the
next 15 years; assuming that Congress is going to fund these
various programs each year. The city manager explained that
a mill is worth $42,000 and to service a million dollars it
would cost the people roughly an extra 2 mills per year for
a 30 -year period. Roughly, to get the drainage plan and
sewer treatment plant we are discussing 5 mills for 30 years.
This would be just the first phase of the drainage plan- program.
Capital improvements were then discussed in relation to
an urban renewal program with a suggestion for either one project
or a complete program of projects. The Planner pointed out
that you use the capital improvement program as a method for
funding the urban renewal efforts. Capital improvements are
needed regardless of whether the City ever goes into urban
renewal programs.
It was hoped that a meeting sometime in late August or
the immediate future could be scheduled for an education program
in urban renewal.
It was mentioned that the members should not lose sight.
of a proposed joint meeting of the City and County Planning Boards,
including the Orange - Seminole - Osceola Joint Planning Council,
and possibly the planners in the various municipalities in the
south end of the county. Mr. Dake stated that he would con-
tact these persons or boards relative to the assembling of such
a workshop for the purpose of stimulating and coordinating
planning ideas.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned to
a meeting to be held July 24, 1969.
Chairman