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07.11.96AGENDA HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD Meeting July 11, 1996 City Hall City Commission Conference Room 300 N. Park Avenue Sanford, FL 4:30 P.M. 1. Call to Order and Roll Call 11. Excused / Unexcused Absences III. Approval of Minutes June 13, 1996 IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness COMMERCIAL a) 230 East First Street (Library Services Bldg.) - Replace windows b) 207 Magnolia Avenue (1st Street Gallery) - Install door V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness RESIDENTIAL a) 305 East Fourth Street (Previously Tabled) - Exterior Renovations b) 1011 Oak Avenue (Previously denied, referred back to HPB by City Commission) - Install front porch railings, rear porch & side window treatments c) 603 Oak Avenue - Install french doors, porch railings, stained glass transom window & replace top floor exterior doors d) 401 Park Avenue (Holy Cross Episcopal Church) - Replace wooden louvers in bell tower with aluminum louvers e) 11 Magnolia Avenue - Replace existing vent holes with windows & replace aluminum window with fixed window f) 801 Elm Avenue - Install 10' tall flag pole in rear yard g) 321 Magnolia Avenue - Place fountain in rear yard, install deck &fence h) 615 Palmetto Avenue - Demolish and construct new house VI. Acknowledgement of Minor Review Committee Actions a) 715 Magnolia - Paint colors b) 306 East Fourth Street - Paint colors VII. Discussion Regarding Establishing a Bed & Breakfast at 812 Magnolia Avenue (Tom & Pat Krewson) VIII. Discussion Regarding Sanford Main Street Economic Revitalization Committee IX. 50th National Preservation Conference X. Request from Sanford Historic Trust XI. Other Business ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: If a person decides to appeal a decision made with respect to any matter considered at the above meeting or hearing, he /she may need a verbatim record of the proceedings, including the testimony and evidence, which record is not provided by the City of Sanford (FS 286.0105). Persons with disabilities needing assistance to participate in any of these proceedings should contact the Personnel Office ADA Coordinator at 330 -5626 48 hours in advance of the meeting. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD CITY COMMISSION CONFERENCE ROOM CITY HALL JULY 11, 1996 4:30 P.M. 1. Call to Order and Roll Call: The meeting was called to .order by Chairperson Laura Sollien at 4:30 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT• Sue Mitchell Paul Porter Laura Sollien Chris Cranias Helen Stairs Don Moore Michael Skat Scott Singeisen OTHERS PRESENT: Andrew VanGaale, Staff Liaison Marion Anderson, Recording Secretary 11. MEMBERS ABSENT: Kimberly Capucille Jerry Mills Julia Goeb 111. Approval of Minutes: Mr. Porter moved to approve as circulated. Seconded by Mr. Cranias. All in favor. Motion carried. IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness COMMERCIAL: (a) 230 East First Street (Library Services Building) - Replace Windows: Mr. VanGaale stated that they are requesting to replace the. windows due to the renovation of the Library. The new windows shall be wood with vinyl clad, white color to match the existing. Ms. Sollien stated that to her they looked like they needed to be taken out, sanded down, and painted. She would like to know if there is excessive wood rot, termite damage, or what. Mr. Cranias moved for approval. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. Mr. Skat and Ms. Sollien in opposition. Motion carried. (b) 207 Magnolia Avenue (1st Street Gallery) - Install Door: Kay Bartholomew was present for representation and stated that she is asking for a door to be placed on the Magnolia side of the building. Mr. Skat moved for approval. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. All in favor. Motion carried. V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness RESIDENTIAL: (a) 305 East Fourth Street (Previously Tabled) Exterior Renovations: Mr. Skat moved to remove from the table. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. All in favor. Motion carried. George Plante, owner, was present for representation. He stated that the garage doors on the front of the building keep falling apart and that he would like to use T1 -11 to close them in. After discussion regarding using block, Mr. Cranias moved to block in the two doors on the front and the one in the alley and paint because block is more secure. Seconded by Mr. Skat. All in favor. Motion carried. (b) 1011 Oak Avenue (Previously denied, referred back to HPB by,City Commission) - Install front porch railings, rear porch & side window treatments: No representative. 1 MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996 PAGE 2 Ms. Sollien stated that. the documentation enclosed in the agenda package allows the Board to consider more as to what was there before and also the railings. Mr. Moore moved on approval. Seconded by Mr. Porter. Mr. Skat Opposed stating that what was done to this house was inappropriate and a gross injustice. All others in favor. Motion carried. (c) 603 Oak Avenue - Install french doors, porch railings, stained glass transom window & replace top floor exterior doors: Kay Bartholomew was representing this request. She stated that she would like% to withdraw her request for the stained glass transom window. Mr. Skat moved to approve the installation of the french doors with the trim to match the existing trim, porch railings and replacement of the top floor exterior doors. Seconded by Mr. Moore. All in favor. Motion carried. (d) 401 Park Avenue (Holy Cross Episcopal Church) - Replace wooden louvers in bell tower with aluminum louvers: No one was present to represent this request. Mr. VanGaale stated that they are re -doing the building and they are concerned about maintenance as to getting up in the tower, every several years or so. Mr. VanGaale stated that his concern would be if there is going to be aluminum louvers, if the vents and a slit of aluminum are used, you would not get the same visual effect because a box aluminum might look the. same. Mr. Moore asked if Mr. VanGaale Is concern, at the moment, is the look rather than the material and stated that if they are aluminum and if the looks are appropriate then material is still a problem. Ms. Mitchell stated that it was her opinion that the material would still be a problem because we're not preserving anything at all. Mr. VanGaale stated that when he looked at things, he didn't think they were in that bad of a shape, he thinks they just need to be repaired. Mr. Moore stated that they don't want to paint them as often as they have to. He thinks their worries are bigger than that, looking. at stucco. Mr. Moore moved to table until more information is obtained. As a minimum they should provide us with some pictures or brochures of the. louvers they intend to use. Ms. Sollien stated that a sample would suffice, if they can get it. Mr. VanGaale stated that they might have to custom make a sample. Mr. Moore stated that if they are thinking of Putting aluminum in there, surely, they have looked at somebody's catalog and have an idea of what they want. Ms. Mitchell stated that she would rather make a motion on what they have and have them come back to the table with another alternative.. Ms. Mitchell made -a motion to deny this request. Mr. Moore stated that he made a motion that we table it until we get more information and specifically some diagrams and details of what they Propose to install. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. Ms. Stairs and Mr. Moore in favor. All others opposed. Motion failed. Ms. Mitchell made a motion to deny the request stating that its not proper materials. This is a real simple request and its pretty vague. Mr. Cranias asked if the cost of materials would be about the same. Mr. Singeisen stated that it would be more expensive to fabricate aluminum for the many windows they have there in the odd shapes,and sizes than simply replacing them with wooden louvers. Seconded by Mr. Skat. Mr. Skat stated that he MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996 PAGE 3 agrees with Ms. Mitchell. He stated that he had looked at these very closely and has a lot of concerns because of the way aluminum ages, and will it age properly and in concert with the building. He thinks thats part of the problem, the paint fades and thats part of the attractiveness of whats in there. The aluminum won't age the way painted wood will, and thats part of the character of that building. Ms. Mitchell stated that this is a key structure to our district, its one of the older structures. She feels they should be encouraged to do the proper thing. Mr. Porter agreed with Ms. Mitchell stating that they should contact an architect. Mr. Singeisen questioned the history of the structure as to the louvers being original to the structure, or being in the bell tower, or were they ever there at all. Mr. Moore and Ms. Stairs opposed to the motion. All others in favor. Motion carried. Mr. Moore asked, for the benefit of the minutes, the reason for denial. Ms. Mitchell stated "inappropriate. materials ". (e) 1109 Magnolia Avenue - Replace existing vent holes with windows & replace aluminum window with fixed window: Mr. VanGaale stated that the request to replace the existing vent holes in front of and back of the house with windows has been withdrawn. No. 2 on the request was to replace the aluminum windows with jalousie type windows. Mr. Skat moved for approval. .`Seconded by Ms. Mitchell. All in favor. Motion carried. (f) 801 Elm Avenue - Install 10' tall flag pole in rear yard: Mr. & Mrs. Richard Heddinger were present. Mr. Heddinger stated that they would like to put a flag pole in the back yard. The dimension is 10' but it might go a little higher. Mr. Skat moved to approve a 10' pole with a weather vane with Mr. VanGaale's discretion as to location. Mr. Moore seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. (g) 321 Magnolia Avenue - Place fountain in rear yard, install deck & fence: Marveen Kelly was present to represent this request. She stated that the base of the fountain is 10 to 12' wide with conch shells all around the bottom of the structure. The fountain, itself, is probably 1920s or 1930s and is concrete. Mr. Skat moved to approve. Seconded by Ms. Mitchell. All in favor. Motion carried. (h) 615 Palmetto Avenue - Demolish and construct a new house: Ed Koch was present. He stated that they are seeking approval to demolish the house. It is extremely termite damaged and water rotted. Right now it is under review by the Commission for demolition by the City. Ms. Sollien pointed out that the Board is not anxious to approve any demolitions, but that this house is beyond repair. What the Board. would like is to closely replicate what was there or something typically close to what is in the neighborhood. This Board would tend to be in favor of demolition with firm plans as to what will be constructed. Discussion entailed moving one of the free houses to this lot. Mr. Skat moved to not allow the demolition unless the exterior of the replacement structure mimic the architecture of the existing house. Seconded by Ms. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996 PAGE 4 Mitchell. Mr. Skat withdrew his motion and Ms. Mitchell withdrew her second. Mr.. Skat moved that the demolition can occur if a new house is rebuilt similar to the existing house or moving a house withiri the historic district to this location. Ms. Mitchell seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. VI. Acknowledgement of Minor Review Committee Actions a) 715 Magnolia - Paint colors. b) 306 East Fourth Street - Paint Colors The Board unanimously acknowledged the decisions of the Minor Review Committee. VII. Discussion Regarding Estatrlishing. a Bed & Breakfast at 812 Magnolia Avenue (Tom & Pat Krewson): Mr. VanGaale stated that this item has been withdrawn. VIII. Discussion Regarding Sanford Main Street Economic Revitalization Committee: Ms. Sollien stated that she feels that the letter has a few inaccuracies in it. She feels that this Board is for economic development. She thinks that the Board could respond in kind to the City Commission with a'letter stating that this Board is very supportive of economic development in downtown. We need to state that we have in fact turned down very few applications and if that perception is out there, the Board will work to change it. We are for historic preservation and economic development, simultaneously. One suggestion to correct the perception is for the Board to make Ms. Stairs and Mr. Crani.as liaisons between the two. They can represent HPB at Mainstreet meetings and likewise represent Mainstreet to us. Ms. Sollien also recommended that the agenda packet be sent to Mainstreet every- month. She would also like for each member of this Board to receive the minutes from Mainstreet. Ms. Mitchell stated that she feels the letter is extremely heavy-handed. She felt like their first step was to contact this Board and talk. She wanted to know where Mr. Barwick got his perception. Mr. Skat stated that he was hurt because Mainstreet didn't come to us first. From listening to two of the City Commissioners, the perception is that HPB has huge problems. This letter started it and Lisa Nason's follow -up letter just slammed us. He stated that Lisa Nason made it apparent that she would like to see this Board become part of Code Enforcement. Ms. Stairs stated that she thinks it is a big difference between rehabilitation and renovation or restoration. We need to look at some of the Department of Interior's guidelines. Mr. Moore suggested that before we write a letter to the City, we meet with Mainstreet. Mr. Moore agrees with thoughts of positive actions. He is concerned that he cannot find out any specifics, Mr. Barwick doesn't know why he signed the letter. Somebody wrote the letter and put the thoughts into it, and it is this person that should be the representative that comes here and talk about it. Charles Rowe stated that the Economic Restructuring Committee discussed the idea that there was a perception out there by some developers that had not yet come to MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996 PAGE 5 this Board. Mr. Rowe stated that Lisa Naso.n's letter is in no way associated with Sanford Mainstreet. Mr. Cranias stated that he has had a number of major property owners in the downtown district express their fears and concerns. He feels that this is a misconception. Charles Rowe stated that this letter will give HPB a platform to educate the community. We want,to kill the Perception and promote commerce in the downtown. We, at least, want to talk to the developers and investors and not have them go running off in another direction because of perception. The Economic Restructuring Committee, Mainstreet, and HPB can work together to change the perception. Mr. Moore stated that he knows the perceptions but he takes this letter as a personal insult. No one ever came to this Board to talk about it. Most of us agree that if this perception exists we need to do something about it. This is an underhanded way to do it and unprofessional. Mr. Marder stated that he understood the Mainstreet letter somewhat better now and that it does warrant some more dialogue. There is a perception. He feels that some of this perception is true and not because of any personalities involved, but because of a philosophical vent of this Board in the way it deals with historic preservation and the difference in your philosophy between some of the folks that are coming in. Ms. Sollien suggested that the Board vote on liaisons, exchanging minutes, and agree to draft a joint letter from Mainstreet and this Board to the City Commission. With this, we would have made a commitment to do these things so that there will be an exchange of ideas and a commitment to meet with that Committee and to also exchange information, in terms of where the misconception might be coming from and what we can do to implement a PR campaign. So moved by Mr. Moore. Seconded by Mr. Skat. All in favor. Motion carried. IX. 50th National Preservation Conference: Andrew VanGaale requested funds to attend the 50th National Preservation Conference. Paul Porter made a motion to approve funding. Seconded by Don Moore. All in favor. Motion carried. X. Request from Sanford Historic Trust: The Historic Trust has asked for a $500 donation to help develop the Walking Tour and another $500 to help educate the residents of the Historic District regarding our guidelines. Mr. Moore volunteered to work with the Historic Trust regarding the Walking Tour. Mr. Skat made a motion to entertain proposals at next month's meeting. XI. Other Business: Discussion: Don Moore addressed the issue of appeals to the City Commission. Laura Sollien stated that the problem was that the minutes the City Commission receive on appeals haven't been approved by this Board yet. Don Moore made a motion that we have a HPB representative on appeals at the City Commission Hearings and send a letter to the City Manager and MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996 PAGE 6 Commissioners informing them of HPB representation on appeals. Seconded by Sue Mitchell. All in favor. Motion carried. Code Enforcement: Sue Mitchell made a motion to refer 1104 Magnolia Avenue to Code Enforcement for non- compliance with the Certificate of Appropriateness. Seconded by Mr. Porter. All in favor. Motion carried.