07.11.96AGENDA
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
Meeting July 11, 1996
City Hall
City Commission Conference Room
300 N. Park Avenue
Sanford, FL
4:30 P.M.
1. Call to Order and Roll Call
11. Excused / Unexcused Absences
III. Approval of Minutes
June 13, 1996
IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
COMMERCIAL
a) 230 East First Street (Library Services Bldg.) - Replace
windows
b) 207 Magnolia Avenue (1st Street Gallery) - Install door
V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
RESIDENTIAL
a) 305 East Fourth Street (Previously Tabled) - Exterior
Renovations
b) 1011 Oak Avenue (Previously denied, referred back to
HPB by City Commission) - Install front porch railings,
rear porch & side window treatments
c) 603 Oak Avenue - Install french doors, porch railings,
stained glass transom window & replace top floor
exterior doors
d) 401 Park Avenue (Holy Cross Episcopal Church) -
Replace wooden louvers in bell tower with aluminum
louvers
e) 11 Magnolia Avenue - Replace existing vent holes
with windows & replace aluminum window with fixed
window
f) 801 Elm Avenue - Install 10' tall flag pole in rear yard
g) 321 Magnolia Avenue - Place fountain in rear yard,
install deck &fence
h) 615 Palmetto Avenue - Demolish and construct new
house
VI. Acknowledgement of Minor Review Committee Actions
a) 715 Magnolia - Paint colors
b) 306 East Fourth Street - Paint colors
VII. Discussion Regarding Establishing a Bed & Breakfast at 812 Magnolia
Avenue (Tom & Pat Krewson)
VIII. Discussion Regarding Sanford Main Street Economic Revitalization
Committee
IX. 50th National Preservation Conference
X. Request from Sanford Historic Trust
XI. Other Business
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: If a person decides to appeal a decision made with
respect to any matter considered at the above meeting or hearing, he /she may
need a verbatim record of the proceedings, including the testimony and evidence,
which record is not provided by the City of Sanford (FS 286.0105).
Persons with disabilities needing assistance to participate in any of these
proceedings should contact the Personnel Office ADA Coordinator at 330 -5626 48
hours in advance of the meeting.
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
CITY COMMISSION CONFERENCE ROOM
CITY HALL
JULY 11, 1996
4:30 P.M.
1. Call to Order and Roll Call: The meeting was called to
.order by Chairperson Laura Sollien at 4:30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT•
Sue Mitchell
Paul Porter
Laura Sollien
Chris Cranias
Helen Stairs
Don Moore
Michael Skat
Scott Singeisen
OTHERS PRESENT:
Andrew VanGaale, Staff Liaison
Marion Anderson, Recording Secretary
11. MEMBERS ABSENT:
Kimberly Capucille
Jerry Mills
Julia Goeb
111. Approval of Minutes: Mr. Porter moved to approve as
circulated. Seconded by Mr. Cranias. All in favor.
Motion carried.
IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
COMMERCIAL:
(a) 230 East First Street (Library Services Building) -
Replace Windows: Mr. VanGaale stated that they are
requesting to replace the. windows due to the renovation
of the Library. The new windows shall be wood with vinyl
clad, white color to match the existing. Ms. Sollien
stated that to her they looked like they needed to be
taken out, sanded down, and painted. She would like to
know if there is excessive wood rot, termite damage, or
what. Mr. Cranias moved for approval. Seconded by Ms.
Stairs. Mr. Skat and Ms. Sollien in opposition. Motion
carried.
(b) 207 Magnolia Avenue (1st Street Gallery) - Install
Door: Kay Bartholomew was present for representation and
stated that she is asking for a door to be placed on the
Magnolia side of the building. Mr. Skat moved for
approval. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. All in favor. Motion
carried.
V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
RESIDENTIAL:
(a) 305 East Fourth Street (Previously Tabled)
Exterior Renovations: Mr. Skat moved to remove from the
table. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. All in favor. Motion
carried. George Plante, owner, was present for
representation. He stated that the garage doors on the
front of the building keep falling apart and that he
would like to use T1 -11 to close them in. After
discussion regarding using block, Mr. Cranias moved to
block in the two doors on the front and the one in the
alley and paint because block is more secure. Seconded
by Mr. Skat. All in favor. Motion carried.
(b) 1011 Oak Avenue (Previously denied, referred back to
HPB by,City Commission) - Install front porch railings,
rear porch & side window treatments: No representative.
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
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Ms. Sollien stated that. the documentation enclosed in the
agenda package allows the Board to consider more as to
what was there before and also the railings. Mr. Moore
moved on approval. Seconded by Mr. Porter. Mr. Skat
Opposed stating that what was done to this house was
inappropriate and a gross injustice. All others in
favor. Motion carried.
(c) 603 Oak Avenue - Install french doors, porch
railings, stained glass transom window & replace top
floor exterior doors: Kay Bartholomew was representing
this request. She stated that she would like% to withdraw
her request for the stained glass transom window. Mr.
Skat moved to approve the installation of the french
doors with the trim to match the existing trim, porch
railings and replacement of the top floor exterior doors.
Seconded by Mr. Moore. All in favor. Motion carried.
(d) 401 Park Avenue (Holy Cross Episcopal Church) -
Replace wooden louvers in bell tower with aluminum
louvers: No one was present to represent this request.
Mr. VanGaale stated that they are re -doing the building
and they are concerned about maintenance as to getting up
in the tower, every several years or so. Mr. VanGaale
stated that his concern would be if there is going to be
aluminum louvers, if the vents and a slit of aluminum are
used, you would not get the same visual effect because a
box aluminum might look the. same. Mr. Moore asked if Mr.
VanGaale Is concern, at the moment, is the look rather
than the material and stated that if they are aluminum
and if the looks are appropriate then material is still
a problem. Ms. Mitchell stated that it was her opinion
that the material would still be a problem because we're
not preserving anything at all. Mr. VanGaale stated that
when he looked at things, he didn't think they were in
that bad of a shape, he thinks they just need to be
repaired. Mr. Moore stated that they don't want to paint
them as often as they have to. He thinks their worries
are bigger than that, looking. at stucco. Mr. Moore moved
to table until more information is obtained. As a
minimum they should provide us with some pictures or
brochures of the. louvers they intend to use. Ms. Sollien
stated that a sample would suffice, if they can get it.
Mr. VanGaale stated that they might have to custom make
a sample. Mr. Moore stated that if they are thinking of
Putting aluminum in there, surely, they have looked at
somebody's catalog and have an idea of what they want.
Ms. Mitchell stated that she would rather make a motion
on what they have and have them come back to the table
with another alternative.. Ms. Mitchell made -a motion to
deny this request. Mr. Moore stated that he made a
motion that we table it until we get more information and
specifically some diagrams and details of what they
Propose to install. Seconded by Ms. Stairs. Ms. Stairs
and Mr. Moore in favor. All others opposed. Motion
failed.
Ms. Mitchell made a motion to deny the request stating
that its not proper materials. This is a real simple
request and its pretty vague. Mr. Cranias asked if the
cost of materials would be about the same. Mr. Singeisen
stated that it would be more expensive to fabricate
aluminum for the many windows they have there in the odd
shapes,and sizes than simply replacing them with wooden
louvers. Seconded by Mr. Skat. Mr. Skat stated that he
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
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PAGE 3
agrees with Ms. Mitchell. He stated that he had looked
at these very closely and has a lot of concerns because
of the way aluminum ages, and will it age properly and in
concert with the building. He thinks thats part of the
problem, the paint fades and thats part of the
attractiveness of whats in there. The aluminum won't age
the way painted wood will, and thats part of the
character of that building. Ms. Mitchell stated that
this is a key structure to our district, its one of the
older structures. She feels they should be encouraged to
do the proper thing. Mr. Porter agreed with Ms.
Mitchell stating that they should contact an architect.
Mr. Singeisen questioned the history of the structure as
to the louvers being original to the structure, or being
in the bell tower, or were they ever there at all. Mr.
Moore and Ms. Stairs opposed to the motion. All others
in favor. Motion carried. Mr. Moore asked, for the
benefit of the minutes, the reason for denial. Ms.
Mitchell stated "inappropriate. materials ".
(e) 1109 Magnolia Avenue - Replace existing vent holes
with windows & replace aluminum window with fixed window:
Mr. VanGaale stated that the request to replace the
existing vent holes in front of and back of the house
with windows has been withdrawn. No. 2 on the request
was to replace the aluminum windows with jalousie type
windows. Mr. Skat moved for approval. .`Seconded by Ms.
Mitchell. All in favor. Motion carried.
(f) 801 Elm Avenue - Install 10' tall flag pole in rear
yard: Mr. & Mrs. Richard Heddinger were present. Mr.
Heddinger stated that they would like to put a flag pole
in the back yard. The dimension is 10' but it might go
a little higher. Mr. Skat moved to approve a 10' pole
with a weather vane with Mr. VanGaale's discretion as to
location. Mr. Moore seconded. All in favor. Motion
carried.
(g) 321 Magnolia Avenue - Place fountain in rear yard,
install deck & fence: Marveen Kelly was present to
represent this request. She stated that the base of the
fountain is 10 to 12' wide with conch shells all around
the bottom of the structure. The fountain, itself, is
probably 1920s or 1930s and is concrete. Mr. Skat moved
to approve. Seconded by Ms. Mitchell. All in favor.
Motion carried.
(h) 615 Palmetto Avenue - Demolish and construct a new
house: Ed Koch was present. He stated that they are
seeking approval to demolish the house. It is extremely
termite damaged and water rotted. Right now it is under
review by the Commission for demolition by the City. Ms.
Sollien pointed out that the Board is not anxious to
approve any demolitions, but that this house is beyond
repair. What the Board. would like is to closely
replicate what was there or something typically close to
what is in the neighborhood. This Board would tend to be
in favor of demolition with firm plans as to what will be
constructed.
Discussion entailed moving one of the free houses to this
lot.
Mr. Skat moved to not allow the demolition unless the
exterior of the replacement structure mimic the
architecture of the existing house. Seconded by Ms.
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996
PAGE 4
Mitchell. Mr. Skat withdrew his motion and Ms. Mitchell
withdrew her second. Mr.. Skat moved that the demolition
can occur if a new house is rebuilt similar to the
existing house or moving a house withiri the historic
district to this location. Ms. Mitchell seconded. All
in favor. Motion carried.
VI. Acknowledgement of Minor Review Committee Actions
a) 715 Magnolia - Paint colors.
b) 306 East Fourth Street - Paint Colors
The Board unanimously acknowledged the decisions of the
Minor Review Committee.
VII. Discussion Regarding Estatrlishing. a Bed & Breakfast at
812 Magnolia Avenue (Tom & Pat Krewson): Mr. VanGaale
stated that this item has been withdrawn.
VIII. Discussion Regarding Sanford Main Street Economic
Revitalization Committee: Ms. Sollien stated that she
feels that the letter has a few inaccuracies in it. She
feels that this Board is for economic development. She
thinks that the Board could respond in kind to the City
Commission with a'letter stating that this Board is very
supportive of economic development in downtown. We need
to state that we have in fact turned down very few
applications and if that perception is out there, the
Board will work to change it. We are for historic
preservation and economic development, simultaneously.
One suggestion to correct the perception is for the Board
to make Ms. Stairs and Mr. Crani.as liaisons between the
two. They can represent HPB at Mainstreet meetings and
likewise represent Mainstreet to us. Ms. Sollien also
recommended that the agenda packet be sent to Mainstreet
every- month. She would also like for each member of this
Board to receive the minutes from Mainstreet.
Ms. Mitchell stated that she feels the letter is
extremely heavy-handed. She felt like their first step
was to contact this Board and talk. She wanted to know
where Mr. Barwick got his perception.
Mr. Skat stated that he was hurt because Mainstreet
didn't come to us first. From listening to two of the
City Commissioners, the perception is that HPB has huge
problems. This letter started it and Lisa Nason's
follow -up letter just slammed us. He stated that Lisa
Nason made it apparent that she would like to see this
Board become part of Code Enforcement.
Ms. Stairs stated that she thinks it is a big difference
between rehabilitation and renovation or restoration. We
need to look at some of the Department of Interior's
guidelines.
Mr. Moore suggested that before we write a letter to the
City, we meet with Mainstreet. Mr. Moore agrees with
thoughts of positive actions. He is concerned that he
cannot find out any specifics, Mr. Barwick doesn't know
why he signed the letter. Somebody wrote the letter and
put the thoughts into it, and it is this person that
should be the representative that comes here and talk
about it.
Charles Rowe stated that the Economic Restructuring
Committee discussed the idea that there was a perception
out there by some developers that had not yet come to
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996
PAGE 5
this Board. Mr. Rowe stated that Lisa Naso.n's letter is
in no way associated with Sanford Mainstreet.
Mr. Cranias stated that he has had a number of major
property owners in the downtown district express their
fears and concerns. He feels that this is a
misconception.
Charles Rowe stated that this letter will give HPB a
platform to educate the community. We want,to kill the
Perception and promote commerce in the downtown. We, at
least, want to talk to the developers and investors and
not have them go running off in another direction because
of perception. The Economic Restructuring Committee,
Mainstreet, and HPB can work together to change the
perception.
Mr. Moore stated that he knows the perceptions but he
takes this letter as a personal insult. No one ever came
to this Board to talk about it. Most of us agree that if
this perception exists we need to do something about it.
This is an underhanded way to do it and unprofessional.
Mr. Marder stated that he understood the Mainstreet
letter somewhat better now and that it does warrant some
more dialogue. There is a perception. He feels that
some of this perception is true and not because of any
personalities involved, but because of a philosophical
vent of this Board in the way it deals with historic
preservation and the difference in your philosophy
between some of the folks that are coming in.
Ms. Sollien suggested that the Board vote on liaisons,
exchanging minutes, and agree to draft a joint letter
from Mainstreet and this Board to the City Commission.
With this, we would have made a commitment to do these
things so that there will be an exchange of ideas and a
commitment to meet with that Committee and to also
exchange information, in terms of where the misconception
might be coming from and what we can do to implement a PR
campaign. So moved by Mr. Moore. Seconded by Mr. Skat.
All in favor. Motion carried.
IX. 50th National Preservation Conference: Andrew VanGaale
requested funds to attend the 50th National Preservation
Conference. Paul Porter made a motion to approve
funding. Seconded by Don Moore. All in favor. Motion
carried.
X. Request from Sanford Historic Trust: The Historic Trust
has asked for a $500 donation to help develop the Walking
Tour and another $500 to help educate the residents of
the Historic District regarding our guidelines. Mr.
Moore volunteered to work with the Historic Trust
regarding the Walking Tour.
Mr. Skat made a motion to entertain proposals at next
month's meeting.
XI. Other Business: Discussion: Don Moore addressed the
issue of appeals to the City Commission. Laura Sollien
stated that the problem was that the minutes the City
Commission receive on appeals haven't been approved by
this Board yet. Don Moore made a motion that we have a
HPB representative on appeals at the City Commission
Hearings and send a letter to the City Manager and
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF JULY 11, 1996
PAGE 6
Commissioners informing them of HPB representation on
appeals. Seconded by Sue Mitchell. All in favor.
Motion carried.
Code Enforcement: Sue Mitchell made a motion to refer
1104 Magnolia Avenue to Code Enforcement for non-
compliance with the Certificate of Appropriateness.
Seconded by Mr. Porter. All in favor. Motion carried.