05.08.97AGENDA
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
Meeting May 8, 1997
City Hall
City Commission Conference Room
300 North Park Avenue
Sanford, FL
4:30 p.m.
I. Call to Order and Roll Call
II. Excused/Unexcused Absences
III. Approval of Minutes
April 10, 1997
IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
COMMERCIAL
a) 107 Magnolia Avenue - Right -of -way use in Magnolia Square for coffee cart
and table and chairs
V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
RESIDENTIAL
a) 201 East 10th Street - Build small deck in rear yard
b) 1011 Oak Avenue - Install porch sign
VI. Acknowledgment of Minor Review Committee Actions
a) 112 East First Street - Recover awnings
b) 107 Magnolia Avenue - Repair windows
c) 304 West 5th Street Install privacy fence in rear yard
VII. Discussion Regarding 615 Palmetto Avenue - Mr. Edward Koch, Jr.
VIII. Budget Approval
IX. Certified Local Government (CLG) Program Update
X. Other Business
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: If a person decides to appeal a decision made with respect to
any matter considered at the above meeting or hearing, he/she may need a verbatim record
of the proceedings, including the testimony and evidence, which record is not provided by
the City of Sanford (FS 286.0105).
Persons with disabilities needing assistance to participate in any of these proceedings
should contact the Personnel Office ADA Coordinator at 330 -5626 48 hours in advance of
the meeting.
ADDENDUM
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
Meeting May 8, 1997
City Hall
City Commission Conference Room
300 North Park Avenue
Sanford, FL
4:30 p.m.
V. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness
RESIDENTIAL
c) 918 Myrtle Avenue - Demolish Shed and Install New Fence
d) 219 West 5th Street - Remove Jalousie Windows and Re -open Front Porch
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: If a person decides to appeal a decision made with respect to
any matter considered at the above meeting or hearing, he/she may need a verbatim record
of the proceedings, including the testimony and evidence, which record is not provided by
the City of Sanford (FS 286.0105).
Persons with disabilities needing assistance to participate in any of these proceedings
should contact the Personnel Office ADA Coordinator at 330 -5626 48 hours in advance of
the meeting.
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
CITY COMMISSION CONFERENCE ROOM
CITY HALL
MAY 8, 1997
4:30 P.M.
I.
Call to Order and Roll Call:
The meeting was called to
Sollien at 4:30 P.M.
order by Chairperson Laura
II.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Laura Sollien
Michael Skat
Barbara Farrell
Don Moore
Scott Singeisen
Helen Stairs
Julia Goeb
Jerry Mills
Kimberly Kmett
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Jerry Gross
Sica Nacu
OTHERS PRESENT:
Andrew VanGaale, Associate Planner
Marion Anderson, Recording Secretary
PUBLIC ATTENDANCE:
Rami Yosefian
Jennifer Singeisen
Ed Koch
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Ms. Farrell moved to approve the
Minutes of April 10th with the inclusion of Tom Freeman's
concerns regarding the signage at 615 Palmetto; the use
of the word "construction ", and statements of illegally
passing as contractors; misrepresentation. Mr. Mills and
Ms. Kmett abstained. Mr. Singeisen requested that he
abstained from voting for the funding for the Florida
Trust Conference be included in the same Minutes.
Seconded by Ms. Stairs. All others in favor. Motion
carried. Ms. Goeb moved to approve the Minutes.
Seconded by Mr. Skat. All in favor. Motion carried.
IV. Applications for Certificate of Appropriateness:
Residential:
a) 107 Magnolia Avenue - Right -of -way use in Magnolia
Square for coffee cart and table and chairs: Mr.
VanGaale stated that he would like some parameters as to
the use of Magnolia Square. His recommendation is that
the applicant utilize the front section of the building.
Rami Yosefian was present for representation. He stated
that the coffee cart and coffee tables are for the
public. He would like to add fans for breeze in the
square. The tables will be wrought iron, very
attractive.
Mr. VanGaale stated that if this use is approved, he
would like to have the stipulation that either Main
Street or public events will take precedence.
Mr. Moore stated that he is opposed to the location of
the coffee cart. He stated that it does not belong up
front. Mr. Yosefian stated that it needs to be on the
side because of the power. Mr. Moore stated that he
hopes the coffee cart could be moved south to get it away
from the end, off the street and away from the tree.
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF MAY 8, 1997
PAGE 2
Ms. Goeb made a motion to approve the request for the
coffee cart. Seconded by Ms. Kmett. After discussion
regarding the tables, Ms. Goeb withdrew her motion.
Mr. Mills moved to approve the coffee cart, to approve
two tables as shown in the photographs for the coffee
cart area, and to allow a maximum of 6 tables in front of
the IOF building with the condition that any additional
tables that are put out there have to come before this
Board for additional approval. These tables are also the
ones shown in the photograph. Two tables by the coffee
cart and a maximum of 6 tables in front of his building
to the width of the IOF building to the centerline of
Magnolia Square. Seconded by Mr. Skat. Mr. Yosefian
stated that two tables are not enough for the coffee
cart. He needs at least a dozen. Mr. Mills amended his
motion to push up the tables to 6 and 6. Mr. Skat
seconded the amendment. Mr. Moore and Ms. Stairs
opposed. All others in favor. Motion carried.
RESIDENTIAL:
a) 201 East 10th Street - Build small deck in rear yard:
Mr. Skat moved to table until the Board has a final
drawing with materials and it is drawn to scale, with the
elevation of the deck. Seconded by Mr. Mills. All in
favor. Motion carried.
b) 1011 Oak Avenue - Install porch sign: Ms. Stairs
stated that it is already installed. Ms. Sollien noted
that it was done before there was approval for it. Mr.
VanGaale stated that he was hoping Sica would be here
because he didn't know what size it is. Mr. Skat stated
that it is bigger than what the guidelines allow. Mr.
VanGaale stated that the problem with our guidelines is
that they only address signage in the downtown, there is
no residential signage standards, which leaves this up to
the Board's discretion. Ms. Kmett stated that it is not
an unattractive sign but what concerns her is that it
blocks the whole porch. Mr. Mills asked if he was
missing something or is the most important element of
this not being spoken about for any sort of a reason. He
stated that the Board had a very big run -in with the
owner of this property for completing work prior to
having a Certificate of Appropriateness with this same
property, it was the back corner porch and a bay. He
stated that he is just amazed that all of a sudden the
same thing, no lesson learned. Ms. Goeb stated that the
most amazing part about it all is that she is now on this
Board. Ms. Stairs stated that there was a sign approved
for this house before. Mr. Skat stated that the
appropriate place for the sign is out in the right -of -way
or just on the other side of the right -of -way on the
other side of the sidewalk so that it doesn't destroy the
flow of the house. Here it is taking up half the porch.
Ms. Sollien stated that they are usually placed on the
fence.
Mr. Skat moved to deny. Seconded by Ms. Kmett. Ms.
Stairs suggested that it be located somewhere else. Mr.
Skat asked if Staff would develop some guidelines for
residential signage. All in favor. Motion carried.
ADDENDUM:
c) 918 Myrtle Avenue - Demolish shed and install new
fence: Mr. Mills moved to approve because it is not
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF MAY 8, 1997
PAGE 3
really a carriage house, its a shed and it has no
continuity and design with the real house, it is a much
later design, and based on the sketch that was presented.
Seconded by Ms. Stairs. After discussion regarding the
fence, Mr. Mills amended his motion to return the fence
to the house at mid point and back behind the side door.
Mr. Skat seconded the amendment. All in favor. Motion
carried.
d) 219 West 5th Street - Remove jalousie windows and re-
open front porch; Mr. Mills commented that the standing
seam metal roof is original, the ceiling boards on the
inside are original, but there isn't an indication as to
whether or not the turn columns will be put on. Mr.
VanGaale stated that the applicant has the typical
railings that have slats in- between, probably the old
shorter ones.
Mr. Mills moved to approve. Seconded by Ms. Kmett. All
in favor.
Acknowledgement of Minor Review Committee Actions: a)
112 East First Street - Recover awnings; b) 107 Magnolia
Avenue - Repair windows; c) 304 West 5th Street -
Install privacy fence in rear yard: Mr. Skat moved to
approve. Seconded by Ms. Goeb. Ms. Stairs abstained.
All others in favor. Motion carried.
VII. Discussion Regarding 615 Palmetto Avenue Mr. Edward
Koch, Jr.: He stated that when they got the Certificate
of Appropriateness to proceed with the house as it was
shown to the Board, they continued with the bid process.
The end result was a cost of $150,000. They were trying
to build one of the better houses in the area, trying to
make it into something that it never was. $150,000 was
a little more money than they wanted to put out. Their
options included trying to find someone who wanted to buy
it and they would build the approved home for the buyer.
They put up a sign saying for sale and hoped that someone
would call and ask to buy the lot. They were going to
tell anyone that they have a design already approved that
they would like to put on the lot and would build it for
them. They could have cut back the size of the house and
the fanciness of the house. They still can but they
really wanted that house but they didn't want to do it
with as much risk. It has sat there for a few months
longer than they anticipated trying to get that end to
happen but they haven't had a lot of luck with phone
calls so they have to go back and try to come up with a
smaller or different plan and have it come back before
the Board. Mr. Koch stated that he understands there was
a motion from the last meeting of building something
similar to what was there or nothing at all. If this is
the case, they have to research what was actually there.
This is where they are.
Mr. Koch stated that they were hoping that the selling
price of the house would be in the $130,OOOs, which means
the construction cost would be about $100,000. When the
construction cost came in at $150,000 that was way out of
what they were thinking. It could be scaled back but
they fell in love with the design and didn't want to
start chopping away at it. They were hoping that someone
else would fall in love with it and may want to build it.
Thats why they haven't done anything yet. He stated that
they were not interested in selling just the lot. This
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF MAY 8, 1997
PAGE 4
was the last option. They wanted to build something, and
they wanted to build the house that the Board saw, they
still want to, but it looks like they will have to start
scaling it back and build something more along the price
range they were thinking about. Which they can do, it
just won't be the same appeal as it was going to be.
Mr. Koch stated that going with a different or modest
house is what it looks like they will end up doing. When
they scale the house back down they will have to bring it
back for approval. They had a lot of nice things on the
inside that will have to go too.
Mr. Mills stated that the Board has learned a valuable
lesson about demolition in that maybe the Board should
approve demolition only when someone has a contract to
build something, or when they bring and show the Board
the plans and the demolition is approved pending, and
only at that time.
Mr. Mills moved to extend the Certificate of
Appropriateness pending a redesign of the property, which
can only go for 6 months. Mr. Skat seconded. Mr. Skat
asked that Mr. Koch come back in two months to give the
Board an update. All in favor. Motion carried.
VIII. Budget Approval: Mr. Skat moved to approve the $5000
budget. Seconded by Mr. Mills. All in favor. Motion
carried. After discussion regarding photographing each
home in the district, Mr. Skat moved to put the budget at
$6000 for inventorying the residential district.
Seconded by Mr. Mills. All in favor. Motion carried.
IX. Certified Local Government (CLG) Program Update: Mr.
VanGaale stated that we are nearly approved although its
been quite a while. The original application submitted
is lacking a few things, according to the Department of
State, that they want to see for certification. We will
need to adopt the requirements that will be placed upon
us if we were to become a Certified Local Government and
incorporate them into our ordinance. It is also
mandating that we periodically update our inventory
materials.
Additional Requirements for Certified Local Government
(CLG) Program:
Procedural Requirements:
1. Provide State Historic Preservation Officer within
thirty days prior notice of all meetings.
2. Submit minutes of each meeting to State Historic
Preservation Officer within thirty days.
3. Submit record of attendance for the Review
Commission (HPB) members to State Historic
Preservation Officer within thirty days.
4. Submit public attendance figures for each meeting
to Sate Historic Preservation Officer within thirty
days of each meeting.
5. Notify change in the Commission (HPB) membership
within thirty days of action.
6. Notify State Historic Preservation Officer
immediately of all new historic designations or
alterations to existing designations.
MINUTES
HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD
MEETING OF MAY 8, 1997
PAGE 5
7. Submit annual report to State Historic Preservation
Officer by November 1 covering previous October 1
through September 30.
Public Participation Requirements:
1. Appropriate local officials, owners of record and
applicants shall be given a minimum of thirty days
and not more than seventy five days prior to
Commission (HPB) meetings in which to comment on or
object to the listing of a property in the National
Register to be reviewed.
2. Objections by property owners must be notarized to
prevent nomination to the National Register.
Survey and Inventory of Historic Properties Requirements:
1. Duplicates of all inventory material will be
provided to the State Historic Preservation Office
and inventory material shall be updated
periodically.
2. Commission (HPB) members are encouraged to
participate in the survey and planning activities
of the Certified Local Government (CLG).
Commission (HPB) Requirements:
1. The Commission (HPB) shall be represented at
pertinent information or educational meetings,
workshops and conferences.
2. The Commission (HPB) shall review proposed National
Register nominations within its jurisdiction.
Ordinance Requirements:
1. Criteria for the review of proposals for
alterations, new construction, relocation and
demolitions set forth in the historic regulations
should substantially achieve the purpose of the
Secretary of the Interior's Standards for
Rehabilitation and Guidelines for Rehabilitating
Historic Buildings.
Mr. Mills moved to approve. Seconded by Mr. Singeisen.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Ms. Farrell informed the Board that a C of A would be
forthcoming regarding a downtown sign for the businesses
on 1st Street.
There was considerable discussion regarding the Mayor's
Historic Preservation Award.
Ms. Sollien stated that the Board needs to ask for one or
more resignations of Board members. She feels real
strongly that if you sit on this Board, you should know
what the guidelines are and adhere to them. If you do
work on your property, it is to be done with a C of A and
if that simple requirement can't be met, you have no
business being a representative of this Board that
polices' other people. Ms. Sollien asked that
resignation of board members and conflict of interests be
placed as items on the next agenda.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at
6:30 P.M.