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City Commission, Sanford, Florida
4:00 P.M. MEETING February
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2 1998
The City Commission of the City of Sanford, Florida met in Special Work Session on Monday, February 2, 1998
at 4:00 o'clock p.m. in the City Commission Chambers, City Hall, 300 North Park Avenue, Sanford, Florida.
Present:
Absent:
Commissioner Whitey Eckstein, Vice Mayor
Commissioner Velma H. Williams
Commissioner Brady Lessard
Commissioner Kerry D. Lyons
City Manager William A. Simmons
City Clerk Janet R. Dougherty
Mayor-Commissioner Larry Dale
City Attomey William L. Colbert
The Chairman called the meeting to order.
Ouestions and concerns regarding proposed Solid Waste privatization.
City Manager Simmons reported the purpose of this meeting was for the Commission to meet with the
employees of the Solid Waste Division to hear the employees concerns and questions in regard to privatization of the Solid
Waste Division.
Jerry Herman, Public Works Director, reported the employees are scared and nervous about the proposed
change. The Solid Waste Division formed a committee consisting of Mr. Herman, Tony Helton, Daryl Udell, Ray Lareaux
and Dimitrias Delance to come up with the best proposal possible for the Division to compete in the RFP process. Mr. Herman
felt the committee had been quite productive in making significant changes in operation. The two major questions of the
employees seem to be "Why?" and "What are we doing wrong?". He reported they really haven't been doing anything wrong
and they are working to do things better. The employees have come up with several ways to do the same job with less money.
Mr. Herman reported the evaluation process for the proposals needs to be addressed. Typically the department
doing the bid reviews the proposals and writes a recommendation, but since the division itself is submitting a bid it causes a
conflict. He asked for the Commission's approval to bring in someone from the County, as an outside consultant, to assist the
division in preparation of their bid.
Anthony Helton, an employee of the Solid Waste Division, asked each Commissioner to express his reason for
wanting to privatize.
Commissioner Lessard reported that the evaluation of the bids will be determined at a later date. The reason
he is looking at privatization is that we are in a new age of government, and the Commission has to look at every City
department and make sure the taxpayers of the City are getting the best possible service for the least amount of money. The
Solid Waste Division is not doing anything wrong, the only question that needs answered is can they do things more efficiently,
or can a private company do it more efficiently. Liability and costs are the two issue that will be considered when evaluating
the RFP' s.
Commissioner Willjams reported the evaluation process discussion is premature. Privatization is an issue that
is being considered by the Commission, and as a Commissioner she is obligated to consider to pros and cons as it relates to
benefits to the citizens of Sanford. She is not aware of anything the Division is doing wrong, but she would like the Division
to demonstrate how effective they can be compared to the other agencies that will be providing the bids. Privatization is a
wave of the times throughout the country, a trend, and whenever anyone presents something that documents that money can
be saved, it is something the Commission cannot ignore.
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Commissioner Eckstein reported privatization was brought up at a Work Session by one of the Commissioners
with the potential of a great deal of cost savings, adding potentially $500,000.00 to $600,000.00 to the General Fund every year.
Also, there would be no liability. What the Commission must do is evaluate whether this would be in the best interest of the
taxpayers. To mitigate this Mr. Heman could raise the rates, which would bring in more money, but something must be done
to make the Division more cost effective. Commissioner Eckstein reported the Commission has agreed that for anyone in the
Solid Waste Division who has less than ten years of service and is not vested, the City would set aside money to vest them so
they would not lose their service time. The Commission will also consider whether or not the private sector can offer the
employees jobs with more benefits than the City. The decision will be purely economics.
Commissioner Williams reported the Commission has not made a decision, and as an individual she has not
made a decision, and when she does it will be a decision that she makes, not one that someone has made for her or manipulated
her to make.
Commissioner Lyons reported the level of service should remain the same no matter who is awarded the bid.
He is personally for privatization and this department was the first one to be looked at because waste privatization has been
one of the main departments privatized. What he would like to see is the City developing a policy to look at privatization
issues and look at what the operating costs are right now. He felt the department is efficient on the streets, but needs to reduce
costs and be able to compete with the private companies.
Mr. Helton asked if any of the Commissioners have ever asked Mr. Herman what the Division. is doing to save
money' now, what have they have done in the past, and what they plan on doing in the future.
Commissioner Williams reported she has never asked Mr. Herman, but she expects him to come to her and
report to the Commission those things he has done. Commissioner Eckstein stated Mr. Herman has reported to the
Commission what he has done in the past year, and the money he has made, and that money is going to go into Capital
Improvements. The ongoing capital structure of the Solid Waste Division is very expensive, so the money it makes goes into
buying tracks, etc. The way the citizens are going to evaluate the Division is the cost per month, and that figure has not come
down.
Mr. Herman reported the Division does not want to publicize its proposals for cutting costs before the RFP is
bid because it does not want to give the advantage to other vendors.
Commissioner Williams reported it would be to Mr. Herman's advantage to reveal his proposal to each
Commissioner individually, not necessarily publicly, and Mr. Herman said he did not have a problem with that. Commissioner
Williams asked if there were reasons why the City shouldn't privatize.
Mr. Helton reported the Division offers the City the best service, the customers couldn't get better service
anywhere. They are making cut-backs and they have made money in the past two years. He asked why the Commission didn't
privatize when the Division was not making money, but is trying to do it now when the Division is making money? They have
more cut-backs they can make, and there is more they can do to be more efficient (which they are trying to do now), and the
private company has nothing on the Division. The Division offers a lot better service as far as the bulk pickup items, and gives
a lot of free service. They "sweep" streets frequently and "eat" the cost, a private company would not do that.
Commissioner Eckstein reported the Mayor voiced a concern over the liability aspect of the Division, that is
a big consideration. Mr. Herman reported that the track record for the Waste Division as to comprehensive claims has been
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excellent, about one or two major claims in the past twenty years. Commissioner Eckstein reported that the potential is there
for someone to get hurt, and if the Division was privatized it is something the City would not have to worry about.
Darrell Eudell, as a representative of the employees, reported it appears some of the Covmnissioners already
have their minds made up to privatize, and asked who originally initiated the privatization issue (one of the Commissioners
or City Manager Simmons). The Commission reported the decision has not been made by anyone, and the issue was initiated
during a goal setting session in a Work Session of the Commission. It was not brought to the Commission by Mr. Simmons,
that is not his job. His job is to come up with data and methods of incorporating ideas. The employees were informed that
if they need to know who initiated the issue that information is available in the minutes. [Mayor Dale joined the meeting at
4:45 p.m. and took the gavel.]
Other concerns expressed by Mr. Helton, Alvin Olmedo, Ray A. Lareau, Johnny Miller, James Meyers, John
Chermick, JoAnn Legge and other employees were: a private company may pay more in wages in the beginning, but will start
getting rid of employees after a year or so. Also, the employees may not be able to meet the qualifications to be hired by the
private company. They employees reported at this time they have the protection of the Civil Service which they wouldn't have
with a private hattier. Another concern is the toss of the opportunity to buy combat time after vesting. The employees wanted
assurance that if positions became available in other departments of the City, they would have~n oppommity to transfer to
those positions. The employees questioned if all private hattiers' backgrounds would be investigated, and what happens if there
is a strike?
The Mayor reported that it has not been his experience that private haulers fire employees after a year if the
employee is doing his job. The City would have contractual oversight on any private hauler, and would make sure that all
employees had the opportunity to continue to work, possibly with better pay and benefits, as long as they do the job as they
are now. If there were a handful that would not be hired, the City would give them first consideration for other positions in
the City. The vesting issue will also be addressed in the contract. The Mayor assured the employees that a private hauler
would be investigated before a contract was signed with them, and the City would make sure the employees' wages, benefits,
etc. would be protected. If the hauler would strike, it would be up to each individual whether to strike or not. The Commission
assured the employees that privatization was not a punishment, and no one is out to do away with jobs.
The employees expressed discomfort at the 'attendance of outside haulers at this meeting. They felt they were
inhibited to speak freely about some of their fears because one of those in attendance may be their future boss. The
Commission explained that this is a public meeting in the Sunshine and anyone had the right to attend. The employees agreed
it was a public meeting but did not feel the haulers should have been given individual notice of the meeting. City Manager
Simmons reported this notice was given per request of the haulers. The Mayor stated that any employee who wanted to could
talk to the members of the Cmmission individually about their concems.
Nell Snow, a resident of Kaywood, spoke on behalf of four anonymous employees. She reported the employees
in the Solid Waste Division give excellent service, are quiet, careful, gracious, cooperative, pleasant and friendly. Also, the
containers some private haulers use are much too heavy and cumbersome for some people to handle. She reported that by
reducing the force by attrition and reducing the number of pick-ups per week the Division could decrease costs. Also, the
streets could be "swept" less frequently.
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JoAnn Legge, secretary for the Solid Waste Division, asked when Commissioner Lyons would announce his
conflict of interest and submit a conflict of interest form. Commissioner Lyons reported he has previously announced this and
that he would file the proper papers when a vote was taken by the Commission, and abstain from voting.
The Commission assured the employees that a decision has not yet been made on this issue, and when it is made
it will be based on what is best.
The private haulers that were in attendance at the meeting introduced themselves as follows: Bob Hyers with
Jennings Environmental, Jim Swan with Jennings Environmental, Thomas Daly with Disposal and a representative from
Republic.
Mayor Dale announced Amnesty Day will be held February 8, 1998 at the Central Transfer Station on County
Road 419 through the Seminole County Solid Waste.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjoumed.
Attest: