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040998 sm158 E?IS~T2 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida ~PRCTAT, MRR~TNG April q 19 98 The City Commission of the City of Sanford, Florida, met in Special Meeting on Thursday, April 9, 1998, at 7:00 o'clock P.M. in the Chamber Meeting Hall at the Greater Sanford Chamber of Commerce, 400 East First Street, Sanford, Florida. Present: Mayor-Commissioner Larry A. Dale Commissioner Whitey Eckstein Commissioner Velma H. Williams Commissioner Brady Lessard Commissioner Kerry D. Lyons City Clerk Janet R. Dougherty Larry Strickler, Moderator Mr. Strickler called the Meeting to order, briefly explained that the meeting is scheduled to end at 9:00 P.M., noted that most of the time will be devoted to questions and answers, and stressed the importance of hearing the facts and being civil during the meeting. He then introduced Mayor Dale. Mayor Dale thanked the Chamber of Commerce for sponsoring the town meeting, and explained that the meeting was posted as a public meeting to allow all of the Commissioners to attend. The Mayor first discussed the concept of the City of Sanford Community Redevelopment Agency (CRA) which was created several years ago through the joint efforts of the City and Seminole County as a separate entity to bring new development to the area. The CRA was one of the first local organizations to which the City brought the proposed hotel/conference center concept. He explained that the CRA has the power through tax incremental financing to fund projects which will revitalize the Sanford downtown area; with tax incremental financing, 95% of the new tax base occurring in the downtown district, from the time the CRA was created, can be utilized at the disposal of the CRA to bring new development to the Sanford historic downtown area. Mayor Dale reported that the CRA has voted unanimously that this is a project they would like to pursue, to finance the public aspects of the development. Mayor Dale stressed that the proposed project is a public-private parmership, a hotel/conference center consisting of a hotel with between 300-450 units and a 100,000 square foot multipurpose conference center. He stressed that the City is not trying to compete with Orlando's Convention Center and explained that a conference center is a much more profitable, usable concept which has proven to be very popular. The Mayor referenced a recent trip taken by the City Commission and County Commissioner Win Adams to the Hotel Roanoke, a hotel/conference center in Virginia which is fairly new and has met with success despite being totally isolated from a major metropolitan center. Stressing that we are located in one of the most vibrant economic metropolitan areas in the world, he cited the interest from the developer and the hotelier to come to Sanford to build this $40 - 70 million dollar complex, consisting of both private (the hotel) and public (recreational and park areas and the privately managed conference center) aspects. The Mayor noted that this conceptual site plan, which hasn't been approved and must go through the development process, includes several aspects of public involvement to enhance Fort Mellon Park: boardwalk, park area, lighted fountain, two piers (one fishing, one marina), personalized watercraft for recreation use on the lake, and possibly some type of entertainment complex and tour boat excursion operation similar to Epcot's guided tour boats. He referenced the millions of dollars spent by Disney on Celebration, one of the most successful real estate ventures in recent history, and noted that we have the real Celebration with Sanford's Historic Downtown and Residential Districts, The Mayor explained that the property will not be sold to the developer or hotelier, but leased long-term. He stressed that the property will still be owned by the City and whatever recreational aspects are incorporated into the project will be open to the public. The Mayor then discussed the park as it exists now. He referenced a previous recommendation from the Waterfront Master Plan Steering Committee to the City Commission, prior to this proposal, to move the ballfields, and noted that the proposal was accepted regardless of what happens with the proposed development. He explained that the ballfields and tennis courts are obsolete, and the E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida 159 SPECIAL MEETING April 9 19-- 98 basketball facility will be replaced at another location. He then referenced a plan presented over a year ago by Mike Kirby, Director of Recreation and Parks, and accepted by the City Commission, for a complex at Chase Park. 'Mr. Kirby explained that the proposed complex at city-owned Chase Park would contain four ballfields in a cloverleaf design providing convenient access to all four fields, as opposed to the two fields currently at Fort Mellon Park which face each other and present a logistical nightmare. He emphasized that the decision was made to expand and relocate the ballfields to one, centrally located area prior to the proposed development. Mayor Dale explained that Chase Park is on Celery Avenue adjacent to the Sanford Historic Memorial Stadium. In response to a question about the drainage problem, the Mayor reported that the City has already spent several million on the Mill Creek drainage project, which has dropped the flood elevation by as much as 6-8 feet. Further, the City will start construction this month or the first of May on a downtown basin drainage project to solve water problems in that area. He explained that the $1.7 million project is funded, designed, permitted, and a contract has been awarded; work is underway, so the problem will be solved this year. Mayor Dale reported that the City is also undertaking a $200,000.00 project on Willow Avenue which has been a problem for years; the contract has been awarded and work is underway. He emphasized that the City is solving drainage problems as fast as they can be identified, designed, permitted and funded. Mayor Dale then addressed questions and problems posed recently in a guest column by Doug Groseclose in the Seminole Herald. He explained that the City Commission, when the proposed development was brought forth to them, said the first thing we' re going to do is go to our citizens, following presentation to the City' s standing committees and organizations. Presentation was first made to the Waterfront Master Plan Steering Committee(WMPSC) whose job it is to recommend to the City options for revitalization of the downtown, especially along the waterfront; the WMPSC came back with an overwhelming statement of support. The proposal was then taken to the CRA, Sanford Main Street, Greater Sanford Chamber of Commerce, and Sanford Historic Trust, and received their unanimous consent to move forward with the project. He further explained that three, well-advertised and legally posted public meetings were conducted, there were numerous news articles and at least two editorials about the project, and on January 5, 1998, as directed by the City Commission, he signed an agreement with PRA Development and Management Corporation which gives them some extra incentives to proceed forward with the development of a project of this nature. The Mayor questioned the statement that he and two Commissioners have described the agreement in two town meetings as "very innocuous," explaining that he went to one town meeting where he stated very emphatically that the City had signed an exclusivity agreement with PRA but full development of the property was far from over; he never said the agreement is innocuous or commits the city to nothing, but that the intent of the document is clearly to proceed with full development of the property to bring vitality to historic downtown Sanford. Mayor Dale further explained that the City Commission is proceeding with the County to keep the judiciary and Courthouse in downtown Sanford. The purchase of City Hall for this purpose was introduced before he decided to run for mayor, and the City Commission was unanimous in its decision to make an offer to the County to sell them City Hall to keep the Courthouse here. He referred to his campaign platform to bring economic development to Sanford and emphasized that this is a chance to create something to draw people to Sanford, immediately inject significant funds into the tax base, and develop undeveloped land. Further, he believes the only way to rightsize our tax base is to bring in economic development and he promised he would work diligently to bring lakefront development and solve the serious midge problem. The Mayor reported that they now have an experimental use permit and the world' s foremost expert on midges, and are solving the problem, so developers are now interested in coming to Sanford. 160 E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida SPECIAl, MEETING April 9 1998 He then referenced the comment, "Going to a strictly neighborhood park system will bring de facto segregation of recreation and park facilities" (from the Groseclose column). The Mayor explained that the City plans to keep community parks and perhaps develop new parks by bringing in economic development and rightsizing the tax base to have money to move forward with these things. He noted that Sanford has the lowest tax base and highest tax rate of any city in Central Florida, and we must do something to turn that around. He and the City Commission have said they'll do everything in their power to rightsize our tax base and bring employment opportunity to our young people who haven't been staying in Sanford. He also referenced the comment that the park "should be preserved as a historic site, a throwback to times when preserving open spaces meant more than hermetically sealing them in concrete." Mayor Dale reported that they plan to enhance the public aspects of the park which is currently underutilized, noting that he has made it a point to go there on weekends, on holidays, and in the evenings. He stressed that the City will continue to have parks where you can use them, and there are other opportunities for lakefront parks on land that will not support this kind of development. He referenced the topic of not being able to develop the park because of deed restrictions, explaining that the City did a title search which said no deed restrictions. He referenced comments about not being able to build on the soil, but pointed out that the Courthouse, City Hall and the Mayfair Hotel were all built on the same soil. Regarding comments he has an interest in the hotel, he explained that he has no interest in hotel, conference center, pier, concessions or anything else to do with the project. The Mayor then answered questions from the audience, with Larry Strickler serving as moderator. Audience: Sanford has a perfectly good hotel now on city-owned property. Why don't we develop this existing property and spend less money instead of taking something that our children use? The park is used; two ball games are going on fight now. Mayor: The ball fields are used, but will be used more in a different location. Ball fields are used all over the city, but kids are not coming to play ball because the lake is there, but because it's an available ball field. He reiterated that it's too small, the Recreation and Parks Department has a difficult time there, and has recommended moving fields to Chase Park where we can better serve the citizens. Audience: We've got a civic center that's not used and a marina that's going bankrupt. Mayor: The civic center is used continuously; there is a request to use the civic center at almost every City Commission meeting. Audience: I don't understand the need for something this complex when we have existing features that would take less tax dollars to turn into what we need. Mayor: The City won't be spending a dime on the proposed hotel, but will lease land to the hotel and make money on it. Audience: Are there any incentives for the developer to come in to develop the property? Mayor: The incentive is we're leasing the land; there is no waiver of impact fees, cash grants, etc. Audience: Will there be any money contributed by the City or County? Mayor: We might use money contributed by the CRA. Audience: Will any bond money be used? Mayor: The CRA is a separate distinct entity with bonding capability through tax incremental financing. There will indeed be some bonding money there, but the CRA is authorized to do that and that's what they were created to do. Audience: The City was bankrupted by the mayor during the 1920's, and Daytona Beach's Marriott Hotel went belly-up with bond money. If you want development, you put up the money. Don't take it out of my pocket as a taxpayer. The Moderator asked Bill Royster, CRA Chairman, to explain incremental taxing because he thinks there is a misunderstanding regarding how money will be bonded and how the tax increment works, and the audience needs to understand that before talking about bonds. Mr. Royster first explained that there are currently no bonding monies available; this will only come about as property values in the designated area increase in value. In turn, the revenues generated by the increase in value will be used to support the bonding E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida 161 SPECIAL MEETING April 9 98 19-- m of monies that could be used for development of the downtown historic area. He stressed that this doesn't necessarily mean all the money will be used for this hotel; whether or not the hotel comes about, the CRA will have these funds to develop and revitalize the historic downtown area. The funding of bonds to help the process will be supported only by the increment generated from the increase in values; current revenues generated by properties now will still be going to the City. Mayor: The project will not involve taxes out of your pockets, but taxes from those who develop new properties; even if not successful, someone will be paying the taxes. Ray Valdes, Seminole County Tax Collector, concurred with the Mayor that taxes are paid on all property in Seminole County. Audience: Whenever the water level increases to within 4-5 inches of the seawall, a sewer on Mellonville Avenue overflows; it has never been fixed, and will probably continue. Mayor: The City is doing several things to fix the problem: 1)removing and fixing the old antiquated drainage systems; and 2) moving forward with a new wastewater facility in the vicinity of the airport which will reduce the load of the only plant in the City. Audience: Is there a way of getting more green space by utilizing parking lots for the project or are we tied to this plan as seen? Mayor: The quadrant which includes the parking lot is necessary to keep the courthouse. We don't want to lose the courthouse to bring in other development; citizens have said overwhelmingly that Sanford is the county seat and they want the courthouse here. The property best situated to bringing this kind of economic redevelopment to downtown is the Fort Mellon Park. Audience: Why can't we have a public referendum on this issue? Mayor: In our representative form of government in this country, we elect representatives to conduct public meetings to make the decisions they think are best for the community; if we held a referendum for every issue, we wouldn't need a representative form of government. Audience: Shouldn't we have a referendum considering the amount of opposition? Mayor: Opposition occurs anytime something new is introduced; there has been an overwhelming favorable response to the project. Audience: Isn't there some flexibility on moving the concept closer to downtown so the downtown businesses can benefit? Aren't there more options available involving the Courthouse, City Hall and the Post Office? Mayor: The proposed location is closer than City Hall to the downtown core. Further, the City has tried unsuccessfully to pursue the Post Office concept. Audience: Will the hotel's parking lot belong to the City or the hotel? Mayor: The hotel will be designed with its own sheltered, two-tiered parking encapsulated in the building. Audience: Why doesn't the Courthouse expand into the parking area, contribute part of the money to the conference center for a 4-5 story parking garage, and go further west with the rest of the proposed development? Mayor: To move parking for the Courthouse as suggested would not provide enough room for development. Audience: Considering that three years ago, the water was up to 7th Street and during Hurricane Donna, it was up to 5th Street, how can you control the water in this area? Mayor: The designer of the project knows about previous flooding problems and will not design the property to be in jeopardy. Audience: Is it a fact or opinion that there isn't enough parking space available if the project develops westward? Can the developers do a study relative this option? Mayor: With the size of parking required by the Courthouse, to move it as suggested and the hotel/conference center westward, would not allow enough space for the hotel and associated parking. Jerry Mills of Burke, Bales & Mills Associates, Inc., who did the preliminary design for the proposed development, explained that the University of Florida conducted a waterfront study three years ago which included a hotel. However, the developer and his assistant, who are both well-trained architects as well as developers, looked at that study and determined it did not allow enough room for their project. The study seen now is exactly right as far as the developer is concemed regarding terms of circulation, how buildings are set up and how they face the lake. He acknowledged that they haven't done a study in the area cited by the audience and haven't been 162 E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida SPECIAL MEETING April 9 19.98 contracted by the developer to do so. Further, a study of that magnitude would probably run between $30-50,000.00. With the current plan, very little has to happen for the developer to begin building as opposed to building on the other side, which would involve such things as the demolition of the entire City Hall. Mr. Mills then explained that he sees the proposed development as being very much used by the public, e.g., having friends and relatives use the hotel, using the conference center for major business meetings and for those functions which now occur in the Civic Center. Audience: According to today's news, there may be a "no wake" zone imposed on Lake Monroe; how will this affect boat trade? Mayor: Boat trade would not be affected very much as there are twelve square miles of lake, and the "no wake" zone would only be that area within 50 yards of shore. Audience: What fiscal impact will the proposed development have on the city/county? Mayor: We will have a better idea when the economic assessment study is completed, but past studies indicate that it will bring significant revenue from bed tax and sales tax, increased real estate values and an increase in business from the influx of visitors. The development will be a significant boost to the local economy which is why Seminole County is trying to bring in a conference center. Audience: What will the economic ripple effect be on the downtown area? Mayor: It will bring in every facet of business imaginable: retail, boutiques, restaurants, service industries, etc. The hotel will have very limited retail on site. Ileah Rainey read aloud a letter stating how much she and others love and use the park, and that the park should stay. Mayor: You'll still be able to come down to the park, enjoy the lakefront, go fishing, and have fun. Audience: Why doesn't the City tum the marina into something profitable? Mayor: The City doesn't control the marina; the property is leased to an individual who has been approached by the developer and doesn't want to sell. Audience: There is a perception that every business on First Street is an antique shop; however, there are those who are working hard to develop new businesses regardless of the new development. Knowing that most conferences bring in 1000-1,500 people, are there any existing buildings to handle that size crowd? How much money is spent during the four to seven days for an average conference? Mayor: There are no buildings in Seminole County that will hold 1000-1,500 people. The economic assessment study being conducted now will tell how much is normally spent, but it is a significant amount. The average family here on vacation spends an average of $7-8,000.00. Audience: A similar development on the north bank of the St. Johns River in Jacksonville was built four years after I put in a business six blocks from the area. When sold, the income from the business was more than 2,000 times per month than before the development went in. I see this as a similar example here. Audience: Will the City be tearing down the Civic Center? Jerry Mills: The first phase of the plan leaves the Civic Center and Chamber of Commerce building in place until such time as there is a need for an additional hotel or something else. Audience: When/if the Civic Center is demolished, where would people go for birthdays, club meetings, etc.? Jerry Mills: They could use the conference center. Audience: The conference center won't let you use their kitchen. Audience: What will be the main traffic artery to and from the proposed development? Mayor: First Street will probably be one-way to the conference center, with Second Street one-way back to Highway 17-92. However, that will be determined with the &sign work and consultant study. Audience: Avenues? Ba, t; is ~he study doing to address traffic from other directions, e.g., Highway 17-92, and Sanford, Park and Mellonville Mayor: Th~ f~,rrent study is a feasibility on the demographics and economic vitality of the project; as we progress, those questions E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida SPECIAL MEETING April 163 9 1998 The moderator reminded the audience that the project isn't even in its infancy, and is purely a concept at this point. The contract with PRA is exclusive for one year so no one else can come in and sign a contract with the City; development is a long way away and there are a lot of hurdles to go through. Audience: We've got a park that' s fairly decent and central to the core of the City. I'm not opposed to development, change or progress, but we should preserve the parks we have wherever they are in the City because they're hard to come by. Mayor: We have one of the best Parks and Recreation Departments in Central Florida, with an annual budget of more than $2 million, and more than 138 acres ofparkland. We plan on enhancing our parks and developing more parks, but this is an opportunity the City Commission feels is even harder to come by. This is something other areas are vying to do and this Commission is trying its best to bring it to the core of Sanford to revitalize our historic, traditional downtown. Audience: Will it bring down our tax rates, or will they be more to accommodate growth? Mayor: It will, at least for the short-term, not increase property taxes. Our very low tax base is the reason why our tax rate is so high, because we haven't had the type of economic development we need to have. We are situated in the northern growth corridor of one of the most vibrant metropolitan economic areas in the world. You are not going to stop growth, but you can manage the type of growth. The answer is yes; in the long run, it will increase property taxes. Audience: In the last six months, the speed limit on Mellonville Avenue has been reduced from 35 to 25 miles per hour. Mayor: I don't envision Mellonville Avenue being one of the main points in the corridors for this project. Millard Hunt, President of the Sanford Historical Society, reported that his organization will be meeting later this month, and he will make recommendation to the executive board that they raise serious questions about this project, including taking untaxed land dedicated for the public use and converting it to commercial use for benefit of the City' s tax base, converting an historic area such as Fort Mellon Park, and finding out what provision has been made for expansion of the museum. Mr. Hunt noted that the current plan does not allow for museum expansion, and emphasized that he is not speaking for the Society, which will issue a statement later. He stressed that he walks through the park every day at noon, and it is underutilized in the sense of what it could be, but could be developed far beyond what it is. Mayor: I hope you will allow Jerry Mills, myself and others to come meet with you to have input when you meet with the Historical Society. A vibrant hotel has always been associated with the historic downtown; some have burned down or been converted, but it has always been a part of Sanford's history. According to Mr. Mills, the proposed plan does allow for museum expansion. Audience: In 1986, Orlando had a similar problem ofunderutilization in Lake Eola Park. Mayor Fredericks spent millions of dollars and mined that park around. Sanford needs to look at how to improve and develop our parks to be viewed as an asset to attract development. Mayor Fredericks spent his first five years in office investing in parks and public spaces before building other projects. Mayor: The Commission realizes and is committed to investing in parks and recreational concepts. When O~ando's downtown was in decline several years ago, they turned publicly-owned property into private development to revitalize and redevelop the area so they could put money into Lake Eola and develop it. That'S what we're trying to do, revitalize and redevelop this park to bring more recreational aspects to the lakefront. Audience: Why can't the development be located out near Interstate 47 " Mayor: No developer is going to put one out there; it doesn't have the view and beautiful lakefront setting. Audience: If the beautiful view is desirable for commercial use, why isn't that view just as important to be maintained for the citizen' s use? What will keep this development from having the same problems the marina is having? Mayor: The proposed development includes open space to keep the beautiful view for citizens in a more lush, parklike setting. Audience: How can a high-rise hotel make for a more parklike setting? Mayor: Part of the overall design concept of the high-rise hotel allows for~more open space. Audience: People go out on riverboats to look at nature; they don't want to see commercialization. This is not a metropolitan area; Sanford is unique because it's a small town, relaxed and laid back. Mayor: We're going to have growth whether we like it or not; the property is designed to have a very aesthetic appeal. Audience: I travel throughout Florida and the southeastern United States representing Sanford and Seminole County on behalf of Rivership Romance. We rum away thousands of people weekly who call locally and from out of the City and State asking where they 164 E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida SPECIAL MEETING April 9 19,98 can hold a wedding or meeting, or find a place for two to three busloads of people to stay. There is definitely a need for the conference center. Audience: Mayor: Audience: Mayor: Audience: Mayor: Audience: Mayor: etc. Audience: Regarding the midge control project, what is the opposition from the Florida Game and Freshwater Fish Commission? The Florida Game and Freshwater Fish Commission opposed midge control because midges are food for fish. The reason we went to the State to get this as a State-sponsored project is so the Game and Fish Commission couldn't say we had to keep the midges. The larvicide (for the project) has been proven through over twenty years of research and applied application all over the wo~d to not have atoxic effect on non-targeted species. We would not jeopardize the environment and non-targeted species. Audience: What are the steps in the process, and when will there be other oppommities for public input if the City or PRA makes a decision to move forward? Mayor: There are many steps in the development process. First, rezoning of the property must occur to allow building the hotel. The developer must go to the Planning and Zoning Commission, the City Commission, and various state agencies (e.g., St. Johns River Water Management District, Department of Environmental Protection, Corp of Army Engineers), obtain permitting and arrange financing before ground can be broken. There will be many oppommities for public input. When is it too late for public input? It's too late when the permit is issued following the development process, which usually takes one to two years. Why can't a referendum go through first and let everyone have a say? The reason we have public meetings is to receive public input, but you can petition for a referendum. With alligators along the lakefront, will there be swimming on the beach? The hotel will have a swimming pool; the beach is not intended for swimming, but for personalized watercraft, fishing, I am opposed to the closing of Mellonville Avenue and Seminole Boulevard. With the tremendous volumn of traffic, a more logical location for a huge hotel complex would be at the Interstate 4/Rinehart Road area or at the Airport. We don't want jetskis on the water; we want to preserve the wildlife. There's little of it left in Florida due to loss of habitat from excessive development. The Moderator thanked everyone for coming and obeying the rules. He stressed that the Chamber feels strongly that every stakeholder group in the City cares about the downtown area and waterfront; all have different opinions, but the best way to manage change is to be part of the process and talk to the elected officials who set policy. Following an exhortation for everyone to stay involved, he adjoumed the meeting. Attest: dc