Loading...
042198 jtsm MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM MTG. April 21 The City Commission of the City of Sanford, Florida met in Joint Special Meeting with the Sanford Airport Authority on Tuesday, April 21, 1998 at 7:00 o'clock P.M. in the City Commission Chambers, City Hall, 300 North Park Avenue, Sanford, Florida. Sanford City Commission: Present: Mayor-Commissioner Larry A. Dale Commissioner Whitey Eckstein Commissioner Velma H. Williams Commissioner Brady Lessard Commissioner Kerry D. Lyons City Attorney William L. Colbert City Manager William A. Simmons City Clerk Janet R. Dougherty Sanford Airport Authority Present: Chairman Sandra Glenn Board Member William E. Adamson Board Member Board Member Board Member Board Member Board Member Charles H. Gibson Lon K. Howell William R. Miller Clyde Robertson A. K. Shoemaker Jr. Board Member Ken Wright Stephen J. Cooke, Director of Aviation Stephen H. Coovet, Attorney Seminole County: Present: County Airport Liaison Commissioner Daryl McLain 187 19-- 98 Mayor Dale called the meeting to order. Discussion of items re~arding mitigation and design for new (short) runway. Mayor Dale explained that the City Commission and Sanford Airport Authority have a commitment to build the general aviation runway and there are a lot of issues to discuss regarding this project. He then introduced the following individuals: Jon Oleson, Sanford Airport Authority; Dr. Storm Richards, environmental specialist and consultant for HNTB; Jimmy Goff, HNTB; Brian Pendleton, design engineer under contract to HNTB; Blair Kitner, project surveyor; Henry Dean, Executive Director, St. Joltus River Water Management District (SJRWMD); and Pat Frost, SJRWMD. Dr. Storm Richards came forward to the speaker's table and explained that development of the general aviation runway was a very complicated project involving a short time period and many issues to be addressed. He cited a number of FAA environmental assessments and other major environmental aviation-related projects completed by his company, Storm Richards and Associates, at airports throughout Florida. At the O~ando Sanford Airport (OSA), he reported that they have completed FAA environmental assessments for runway conversion projects, for road access projects, for the terminal, and for the terminal bonding of all terminal-related expansion projects. Further, they have worked with the U. S. Army Corp of Engineers (Corp) to complete bunker removal projects at OSA to relocate protected species, and with the U. S. Fish and Wildlife, and Florida Game and Freshwater Fish Commission on an eagle siting project relative an access road at OSA. Dr. Richards reported that these projects have all been reviewed and evaluated by the FAA and other state and federal agencies. He noted that his work has been hallmarked by agency coordination, presentation of options for development, and extensive coordination with the Airport Director and operational staff. Dr. Richards explained that the FAA Environmental Assessment for the proposed OSA general aviation runway has been an extensive project due to time delays, agency coordination and potential impact to jurisdictional wetlands. He then 188 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April 21 19 98 reviewed two major points .regarding the wetlands analysis.. First, the. FAA Environmental Assessment is primarily a federal document, with all findings reviewed by the Governor' s clearing house and coordinated with state and federal agencies. Due to FAA time constraints,-the Environmental Assessment was comp;leted in ten days; if not completed in that time frame, they .believed that funding would be removed to another airport, so they were under a terrible time constraint to move quickly to get things done. The Assessment was submitted on December 1996, followed by a revision in June 1997, a second revision in August 1997, and signed off on September 18, 1997. On December !8, 1997, Mr, Blair of the FAA signed off on the document. Dr. Richards noted that the Corp completed their wetlands review on May 22, 1997; Thad Hart of the Corp reviewed the site, and the entire wetlands (the entire area east of B.vpass Canal) were staked with PVC .pipe and flagging. He noted that the bypass canal runs east-west, everything going toward Beardall Avenue is east, and everything going toward Lake Golden and the term_inal is west, Dr. Richards then referenced the attached map in the document which clearly shows that virtually all of the nmway site east of the drainage canal crosses the wetlands with the exception of the most eastern portion toward Beardall Avenue. He stressed that virtually all the design and construction work lies within federal jurisdictional wetlands, and it was always the understanding and direction of his company that the trees to be cut within this wetland area needed both the Corp and SJRWMD approval of both the cutting and cutting methodology, He noted that this is ty.pically nonintrusive work that would not affect the grade surface of the wetlands. He referenced letters and correspondence to Mr. Hart explaining their intent to cut a portion of vegetation and trees, to which Mr. Hart responded with the possibility that it could be done if coordinated with his agency. Dr. Richards then provided that direction to both the engineer and the Airport, and advised the SJRWIVID in a letter dated August 19, 1997 that OSA needed to remove some trees. Dr. Richards reported that Thad Hart at this time said if the wetland impact was less than three acres, a permit could be issued relatively quickly. He then took this information to the engineer, Bfian Pendleton, and Airport Director Steve Cooke. Dr. Richards stressed that there was a desire to make the wetlands impact the optimum three acres so the permitting process could continue; anything more than three acres would involve different permitting and be more involved. He again noted that the entire thirty to forty acres of wetlands were flagged. In response to Airport staff direction to reduce the wetlands impact of the runway in previously designated areas, Bfian Pendleton wrote a letter to Steve Cooke stating that it would be difficult'to reduce the wetlands impact below 4.12 acres. In another letter to Mr. Cooke on June 2, 1997, Mr. Pendleton advised that a Corp representative had indicated to Storm Richards during the field review visit that the trees and other vegetation could be removed without necessarily causing wetlands impact, provided there was no significant filling of the site. Dr. Richards referenced a statement on page 2 of that letter, indicating the position of Storm Richards and Associates that work on the wetlands could only begin following coordination with the Corp and SJRXVlVlD regarding delineation of the wetlands and the methodology for tree removal. He reiterated that the wetlands were flagged for the Corp jurisdictional lines and preliminary discussions with the SJRWMD were undertaken. Dr. Richards stressed that it was always understood that the entire proposed runway site east of the drainage canal, with minor exceptions, was located in jurisdictional wetlands. He explained again that a limiting factor identifying three acres or less of wetlands was explained to Mr. Cooke who directed that the project design be less than three acres because any more would have increased the permitting requirements and involved more time. E718672 MINUTES City CommisSion, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April 189 21 19-- 98 Dr. Richards then discussed his second point which involved delineation of the five-acre wetlands west of the canal. He noted that the Corp did the weftand delineation for the entire eastern portion of the Airport approximately five years ago under the direction of Irene Zadowsky. At that time, the area west of the canal was not designated as Corp jurisdictional wetland, and in 1997, Thad Hart did not designate the area as a wetland. Dr. Richards referenced a meeting at the SJRWMD in March 1998 with Rod Pakzadian, Brian Pendleton, Steve Cooke, and himself, to obtain a clearing and grubbing permit for this area. He noted that Mayor Larry Dale was there on other business and sat in on the meeting at Mr. Pakzadian' s invitation. Dr. Richards reported that he was asked during the meeting if other wetlands existed west of the canal, and due to his concern to minimize the wetlands impact and his desire to expedite the project, he said that no other wetlands existed. He stressed that they were specifically talking about the wetlands to the west of the canal. Dr. Richards stated that he believed it was his responsibility to come up with the quickest way to do the project with the least amount of wetland impact, and to convey that to the decision makers; therefore, prior to the meeting with SJRWMD and Tony Miller, Wetlands Specialist for SJRWMD, coming on-site, he reviewed the proposed general aviation rimway site west of the drainage canal with Steve Cooke and Jon Oleson, and told them that the area was most likely SJRWMD jurisdictional wetland. Dr. Richards explained that after the meeting with SJRWMD in which he said there were no wetlands, he asked the Mayor to look at it with him because they had looked at wetlands together before in the Mayor's role as a developer. The Mayor concluded that it was a wetland and was very concemed that Dr. Richards had misrepresented it to the SJRWMD. When Mr. Miller came out, he also determined that it was wetlands and Dr. Richards flagged the entire five-acre wetlands west of the drainage canal in less than an hour. Mr. Howell questioned whether or not he knew there were thirty acres of wetlands when he first went out there. Dr. Richards explained that Mr. Hart' s jurisdictional determination included the entire area, not just where the runway would go; any intrusion into that area would be intrusion into wetlands. Mr. Howell asked if he thought he could pass the three acres off to the SJRWMD knowing he had to do more. Dr. Richards explained that the wetland area designated by the Corp was one component necessary to complete the FAA document, and the actual construction pad of the proposed runway would've been very close to the three acres suggested by Mr. Hart, going from 4.5, to 4.2, to 4.1 and finally down to 2.9 acres. In response to Mr. Howell's question as to whether he knew he would need more acreage for the SJRWMD, Dr. Richards explained that SJRWMD and Corp lines typically are slightly different. Regarding the five acres west of the canal, he felt and had expressed concem that it was likely a wetland, but felt that there might be some way they wouldn't declare it; however, his concerns were pushed on by the notion that they needed to get the project built. Mr. Howell questioned who was pushing the notion, and Dr. Richards explained that he only identified the thresholds; Mr. Pendleton, the engineer, was doing the design work. Mr. Howell then referenced the meeting with SJRWMD when Dr. Richards made the statement that there were no wetlands, and asked how that came about. Dr. Richards explained that they had to clear everything west of the canal which was very high and then dropped down into the infield which was very low. He realized the gravity of the problem when he got out there and knew if they increased the impact, they wouldn't be permitted at all. Therefore, because he had been charged with facilitating the project and he wanted it to proceed, he said there were no wetlands at all, hopeful that they could go back out there and explain that 190 E718672 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April21 1998 these are non-jurisdictional, isolated wetlands. Ken Wright asked Dr. Richards, based on his experience, if the ten-day deadline to prepare the environmental assessment seemed an unusually short time frame, and if the assessment included the wetland impact. Dr. Richards explained that it was his understanding that FAA monies were freed up and if an assessment could be presented in that time period, the FAA would review and consider it for funding. He reported that they were charged with doing the project in three phases: 1) the FAA Environmental Assessment 5054A which had to identify the wetlands; 2) wetland concerns to address; and 3 ) very complicated threatened endangered species processes. When they did the FAA Environmental Assessment, they reported that :there were no wetland impacts or threatened endangered species problems because the FAA had said if the wetland impacts and the eagle problem could not be resolved, there would not be a runway. Mr. Wright noted that the process of finally resolving the Environmental Assessment took almost a year. Dr. Richards explained that the timing is misleading; while the document wasn't changed dramatically, it had to continue to be revised due to the dynamics of the process, e.g., for specifics related to the eagle and large tortoise population. Mr. Wright asked Dr. Richards if he was ever given any instruction in regard to indicating there were no wetlands or threatened endangered species, or did he make this determination on his own. Dr. Richards stressed that his scope of services included identification of the wetlands, the types of impacts that existed and if there were things that had to be done. It was clear that if more than three acres of wetlands were identified, the project wouldn't get done. In response to Mr. Wright's inquiry, Dr. Richards affirmed that once the money got locked in, the Environmental Assessment was worked out over the next year. He explained that they didn't have the money to address the wetlands impact and threatened endangered species issues on the front end. When asked by Mr. Wright if anyone ever expressed any concern over the fact that the initial Environmental Assessment didn't address the wetlands or threatened endangered species, Dr. Richards reported that the Govemor's clearing house process came back from the SJRWMD, Corp and other agencies, and said that the project is consistent but would require appropriate permitting. Dr. Richards acknowledged that he knew at that time there were wetlands on-site. Dr. Richards referenced designs which showed the direct wetlands impact at the runway core to be 4.12 or 4.5, and reported that he told both Mr. Cooke and Mr. Pendleton that if it stayed 4.0+ acres of impact, be prepared to do a full permit. He then acknowledged that he had been shown a footprint of what it would look like going through that wetland. Mr. Wright noted that he has worked with Dr. Richards before and both he and Dr. Richards know the difference between the way the Corp and the SJRWMD define a wetland, and the difference between what the Corp allows regarding tree cutting and what the SJRWMD requires. Dr. Richards reported that he had expressed early on and repeatedly to the engineer, Mr. Pendleton, and to Mr. Cooke, that there were four separate, related and critical areas to resolve: 1) Corp jurisdictional; 2) SJRWMD jurisdictional; 3)whether they could cut; and 4) the methodology for cutting. Dr. Richards referenced the August 19, 1996 letter to Mr. Hart which dealt more with the eagle and the trees there than it did with the wetlands. He made a request at that time that they go out and make a determination if they could cut the trees down and remove them without disturbing subsoil and making it a full wetland impact. However, Dr. Richards E718~7~ MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April 191 21 19-- 98 stressed that he stated to everybody, including the engineer and the Airport Director, that it had to be signed off; the letter gave them no authority to do anything. Mr. Wright referenced the binding jurisdictional wetland delineation done by Thad Hart on May 22, 1997 and the need to get this project done, and questioned why nobody invited the SJRWMD out at that time to get their wetland line delineated. Dr. Richards explained that with the FAA Environmental Assessment document, the FAA predominantly wants to see a federal (Corp) line and to have that line signed off. He stressed that it was always their intent to have the SJRWMD out there after the fact; however, it was easier to have Thad Hart come out and determine one line to put in the document. Mr. Wright then referenced a letter he wrote to Dr. Richards on March 24, 1998 in which he suggested that they get a wetland line dram and asked if that prompted them to get the SJRWMD out there to the site. Dr. Richards reported that Tony Miller with the SJRWMD had been on-site at least two times; however, they decided to delay flagging until they could get a better handle on the wetlands. Mr. Wright explained that he was charged by the SAA Chairman to work with Dr. Richards and the other consultants to see if they could make some progress on this project, and on or about March 24, 1998, he asked Tony Miller to verify the wetland line in the field, and it wasn't there. He then asked Dr. Richards when in the past would he ever have tried to expedite a permit application through the SJRWMD when there's not been a determination of the extent of the wetlands on-site. Dr. Richards acknowledged that he has never been in this position before, and explained that typically the wetlands are flagged by one agency, then the other agency, and surveyed. They then go back to the agencies to be signed off, and you mitigate for the larger of the two wetlands. Mr. Wright questioned how the runway went from being 4.4 acres down to less than three acres. Dr. Richards explained that all he did was flag the perimeter of the wetland, and that footprint is what it is; however, Mr. Pendleton was directed to reduce the runway to less than three acres. Mr. Wright then asked if anyone thought about the nationwide permitting level of a three-acre impact being above the SJRWMD threshold. Dr. Richards stressed that it was always his direction, and written in every part of the Environmental Assessment, through the work sent by Mr. Pendleton and through the Corp communication back and forth, that there were two permits which had to be dealt with individually. Mr. Wright referenced the five-acre wetland, a depression in the infield, which meets all criteria such as vegetation and hydrology, and asked Dr. Richards if he had seen that before the meeting with SJRWMD which Mayor Dale attended. Dr. Richards again acknowledged that he had seen the wetlands, and had shared his concems about the area with Mr. Cooke and Jon Oleson, but did not delineate it on the front end because it would bust the threshold. Mayor Dale explained his involvement in the March meeting at SJRWMD, reporting that he was there to drop off some documents for his business as a private developer, and was invited to attend the meeting by Rod Pakzadian, design reviewer for the project. The Mayor explained that he had not been involved in this matter until then, and the issue was that the FAA had funded this project, and work needed to begin or the Airport was in danger of losing the funding. Mr. Pakzadian 192 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April 21 19 98 told him that Mr. Cooke, Mr. Pendleton and Mr. Richards were there to ask to be able to get started due to the time problem, the fact that the project had already been funded and gone to contract without applying to the SJRWMD, and Mr. Pakzadian was explaining why they couldn't do that. Mayor Dale explained to them at that time that they couldn't get a general clearing and grading permit if there were any wetlands whatsoever, and that he would not go in and speak to the local manager of the SJRWMD if there were any wetlands. Mr. Cooke, Mr. Pendleton and Mr. Richards all told him there were no wetlands, so he spoke to Elizabeth Thomas, Director of the SJRWMD Service Center in Orlando, about getting a general clearing and grading permit, and after much discussion, it was decided they could proceed. However, the next day, he received telephone calls from both Elizabeth Thomas and Dr. Richards. Dr. Richards asked him to come look at the area to see if it was a wetland. Ms. Thomas was very disturbed and questioned his assurance the day before that there were no wetlands involved with the project. The Mayor reported that he, Dr. Richards, Mr. Cooke and Mr. Oleson went immediately to the site and determined without even getting out of the truck that it was jurisdictional wetlands. At this point, he asked that they get Mr. Miller out to the site immediately, stated that they could not proceed under the general clearing and grading permit, and that they needed to immediately rescind the statement that there are no wetlands here. Commissioner Williams stated that it is obvious that there is a very serious problem and asked for identification of the problem, why they are being confronted with the problem, and how they can resolve the problem. Mr. Wright explained that there needs to be a quick resolution to all the loose ends to the construction of the runway so it can be permitted and constructed because the Airport is in jeopardy of either: a) havingan accident; or b) losing our British airlines. He then identified the problem as being bogged down in a permitting quagmire which has taken over a year to get to this point, and explained that everyone is here at this meeting trying to find out how we got here and what it will take to get out of it. Mr. Wright stressed that they need to come to some closure on this permitting issue, so they know what the wetlands and the impacts are, what to do about the eagle, what is the cost, and where will the money come from, so they can get a permit and get the runway built. Dr. Richards acknowledged that the Airport lied to a state agency. Duke Adamson referenced the statement made by Dr. Richards, Mr. Cooke and Mr. Pendleton to the SJRWMD that there were no wetlands, and questioned what happened overnight to make Dr. Richards call the Mayor. Dr. Richards again explained that prior to that meeting, he had expressed to Mr. Cooke and Mr. Oleson that those were most likely wetlands and they could try to minimize the impact. He stressed that he wouldn't characterize what was said necessarily as a lie; it was his job to try to minimize the work, a threshold had already been met and they couldn't have done any of the work with an increase in that threshold. He further explained that he called the Mayor because Tony Miller of the SJRWMD was going to be on-site within a couple of days and he knew he would look at the area. He again referenced his previous conversation with Mr. Cooke and Mr. Oleson, explaining that there was a potential for a wetland in the middle of the runway, and if they called it a wetland from the beginning, there would be no permit for grading and clearing. Mr. Adamson voiced his objection to the use of the word "lie". Mayor Dale referenced Dr. Richards' feeling that it was his job to minimize the wetland impact and questioned whether he felt pressured to do that. Dr. Richards explained that he was trying to do the best job he possibly could; if the area could possibly be construed as an upland, then he was going to say it was an upland to keep the project going. He reported that the pressure for E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT?/COMM. MTG. 193 April 21 ]9 98 doing this project started from day one. Dr. Richards acknowledged that the lack of money for mitigation contributed to the pressure; however, the pressure started from having to produce the document for FAA within 10 days, and going ahead with the Corpjurisdictional delineation but waiting until a later time to have the SJRWMD delineation done and deal with the eagle. If the wetlands, eagle and tortoise issues weren't resolved, they wouldn't have a runway; every day something occurred to say if this isn't handled right away, there is no project. Mr. Wright referenced the 4.5 acres of direct wetland impact, the absence of SJRWMD lines back over a year ago, and the five-acre wetland of hontoon muck, and questioned what would make Dr. Richards say there' s only three acres of federal jurisdictional wetlands and he doesn't know that the District exists or that the five acres exists. Dr. Richards explained that they had SJRWMD on-site at least three times with two different agency people out there, but they never completed the jurisdictional delineation; Lance Hart was out to look at parts of the project and Tony Miller came out twice. Mr. Wright noted that Dr. Richards knows the difference between having someone come out to look at the site and making an appointment to hang flags. Dr. Richards explained that the NWI maps and other maps clearly showed the area was wet and he tried to minimize the impact so the project could be completed. Commissioner Eckstein questioned Dr. Richards' integrity in this matter, and Dr. Richards asserted that what he had said is the truth; errors were made and he needs to take some of that responsibility. He stressed that they were under a lot of pressure to take a project that should've taken three years and try to push it through in twelve months. Mr. Adamson referenced the cost of mitigation and a previous idea that they were going to get more than seventy acres from the City for the tortoise problem. Mayor Dale explained that he had said if the SJRWMD would buy off on it, he would take the idea of a conservation easement on Site 10 to the City Commission. Next, Mayor Dale requested that Blair Kitner come forward to the speaker' s table, reported that Mr. Kitner has done surveying for HNTB, Dr. Richards and the SAA on occasion, and asked Mr. Kither if he had ever experienced these time constraints. Mr. Kither reported that in the recent past,' there have been many pressure situations, things which should've been done earlier but weren't done so they've had to accommodate emergency requests. He further explained that when they originally did the center line of the rimway back in March 1997, they knew there were wetlands there; when they asked about it, they were told that they would get to it later. Further, when they did the topography for the proposed runway through the wetlands, and knew there were wetlands there but no wetlands were flagged for them to locate, they were told, they would get to that later. All of a sudden, Tony Miller was coming out to look at a site with no wetlands flagged and no jurisdictional line, and it was an emergency situation. Mr. Kitner reported that he was called by Mr. Oleson approximately four weeks ago and given a day's notice to flag the wetlands so Mr. Miller would have something to look at. Mr. Adamson referenced the unprecedented short amount of time that it has taken to get the Airport' s terminal project up and running, and asserted that these time pressures wouldn't be unusual for a project that moves this fast. In response to Mayor Dale, Mr. Kitner explained that he did the topography in June, 1997 and knew at that time the wetlands were there east of the ditch, but wetlands west of the ditch weren't apparent; right now there are wetlands due 194 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT?/COMM. MTG. April 21 19-- 98 to the unusual amount of rainfall in December, January and February. In response to Mr. Wright' s question regarding who flagged the wetlands, Mr. Kitner acknowledged that he hung the flags, and Dr. Richards explained that he drew the wetlands configuration based on maps and his knowledge of the wetlands, and faxed the information for flagging the wetlands from Boston where he was at that time to the surveyor. Further, Tony Miller has agreed with the line. Bill Miller stated that the environmental specialist flags in jurisdictional wetlands, then a licensed surveyor must do a topographic survey to delineate those flags on paper, signs it and seals it, and that become a legal document delineating the wetlands. In the process, the SJRWMD goes out, reviews it, and the surveyor makes any necessary changes; however, he stressed that the surveyor never delineates wetlands. Mr. Kitner acknowledged that he normally surveys delineated wetlands in a timely fashion so it can be given to the designer. Mayor Dale noted that in this situation, the design was completed and the contract awarded, and we didn't have the delineated wetlands. Mr. Adamson noted that he prefers the concept that errors were made and not lies, and asked Mr. Kitner if he was a certified wetlands specialist. Mr. Kitner explained that he wasn't, but Tony Miller would not look at the site unless there were flags out there. He further explained that he has located wetlands in the past, acknowledged that they stepped out of their field in this situation and put out 140 flags, of which 30 were adjusted by Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller reported that he has never heard of an environmental specialist not personally or his staff flagging the wetlands. the game. Mayor Dale explained that Dr. Richards testified earlier that he flagged the entire 30-40 acre wetlands early in Dr. Richards concurred and reported that there are several documents which show the entire wetlands flagged. He explained that they PVC staked it and flagged it, and the Corp came through, but then they had the tomado, cows eating the flags, etc. Mayor Dale noted that the wetlands had to be reflagged while Dr. Richards was out of town. Dr. Richards explained that when he went to Boston, he took the aerials and documentation that he would need to make the wetlands delineation. He then supplied Mr. Kitner's office, the Airport and others with the map showing the wetlands, and they were flagged in the field based on the map. Mr. Kither reported that, after they resurveyed the points adjusted by Tony Miller, the wetland was around fifteen acres and all strictly east of the drainage ditch. In response to Mr. Miller, Mr. K/tner reported that a sealed survey of the wetlands was not done at the time the original flagging was done. Mr. Miller noted that they paid to have the wetlands delineated but the documentation was never done. Mr. Wright explained that he does this routinely, and without exception, the first thing you do is have the environmental consultant go to the site, do a wetland line, using one color of tape for the Corp and another color for the SJRWMD if the lines are different, and flag the wetlands. You would then have the SJRWMD schedule a time for one of their E'/18672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. 195 April 21 98 19-- employees to go out with your consultant to adjust the line as necessary. The property is then surveyed, pre-application is made to the SJRWMD, and you meet with their staff to discuss the wetlands and the impact. Mr. Wright explained that this process usually takes 120 days. Mayor Dale explained that it is not the environmental specialist's job to order the survey; it is the developer' s job to order the survey, or the design engineer to request it. Mr. Wright noted that they still don't have a wetland line delineated and the impact. Commissioner Lyons questioned whose responsibility it was to order the survey following the wetland delineation and suggested that I-IN should're handled it. Mayor Dale acknowledged that HNTB should're been aware that they didn't have a survey of the wetlands. The Mayor questioned Mr. Cooke about a letter sent to Ken Wright on April 20, 1998 in which he identified the wetlands, ratios, and mitigation costs, and asked whether or not Dr. Richards had any input into the letter. Mr. Cooke stated that Dr. Richards did not have any input into the letter, and reported that information contained in the letter was based on a meeting he had with the FAA on April 15. Mayor Dale asked Mr. Cooke if the FAA told him what the wetlands were, and Mr. Cooke explained that with the FAA, they wanted to get clear definition of the setback for the runway and what the runway extension zone would be, so they put this on the map along with the line-of-sight line and tried to relate it to the wetlands that already been defined in the surveys up to that time. Mayor Dale then asked if the information came from the SJRWMD, and Mr. Cooke explained that it came from a survey that was done and Mr. Pendleton put it on the plan. Mayor Dale asked where the mitigation credits came from and who decides what they are. In response, Mr. Cooke explained that the mitigation credits came from a different survey and haven't been decided yet. Mayor Dale expressed his confusion over information contained in the letter dated April 20, 1998, and Mr. Cooke explained that this was an estimate based on mitigation ratios, and he was trying to clarify the miscommunication on the plan regarding the width of the runway swath. He then discussed the confusion over the width of the runway, explaining that the FAA approved the proposed 75-foot runway as a Group 2 runway which has a 500 foot swath for light planes and jets; however the length of the runway is not sufficient for, nor was it ever intended to support that kind of activity, although the plan submitted to the SJRWMD seemed to indicate it did. Mr. Cooke further explained that the plan was designed to facilitate future extension of the runway to a Group 2 nmway; however, it was not designed to function as a Group 2 runway initially, but as a touch-and-go runway to get lighter aircraft away from other aircraft. Mr. Miller noted that the original design was in fact 500 feet, regardless of the intent, and questioned why it took so long to change it. Mr. Cooke responded by explaining that it wasn't clear in the plans that the runway would be operated as a touch-and-go runway. Mr. Miller emphasized that this should're been called to someone's attention and the width narrowed at the time of the original design. Mr. Wright questioned why, if the intent was a smaller configuration, did Mr. Pendleton have notes on the plans which indicated design of the runway would be according to the FAA regulations with a 500-foot swath. 196 E718~72 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 21 98 19-- regulations. Mr. Cooke asserted that the notes were intended to clarify that operation of the runway were subject to FAA Mr. Wright noted that the SJRWMD doesn't care how the runway is operated, and explained that the application is submitted to the SJRWMD for them to assess what the wetland impacts are so they can calculate the mitigation cost. He stressed that this is a linear project with no specific design criteria, and he is confused as to why they still haven't resolved what the wetland impacts are. Mr. Howell referenced the letter from Mr. Cooke to Mr. Wright on April 20 which spells out the mitigation credits, and questioned why that wasn't done two months ago. Mr. Cooke explained that they don't yet have a clear determination of the wetland impacts; he was attempting to take the information to move forward to resolution of the project. In response to Mr. Howell, Mr. Cooke further explained that the information did not come from the SJRWMD, but from Mr. Kitner's surveys. Mayor Dale asked if the credits came from the SJRWMD, and Mr. Cooke stated that the credits strictly refer to a conversation between Mr. Pendleton, Mr. Wright and Mr. Frost, and relayed to him by Mr. Pendleton. He noted that the credits are not necessarily correct and he doesn't think they're final. In response to Mr. Wright' s question as to why the SJRWMD wetland line was never shown in the application, Mr. Cooke explained that they were trying to proceed with the project as quickly as they could with the information they had, and noted that it was an extremely complicated project due to the environmental assessment, FAA funding, the eagle's nest, and the delay in getting the survey done late in the game. Mr. Wright expressed his concern about the pattem going back to the very beginning, indicating constant pressure, getting below the nationwide Corp threshold, ignoring the SJRWMD lines and rules, blatant non-disclosure of known wetlands on site, and an entire year which looks like an intent to hide wetland impacts or get around regulations to expedite the project. Mr. Adamson briefly explained the evolution of the concept of a simple downstrip to a paved, touch and go runway and noted that at the last meeting, it was asked if allowances were being made for a taxiway. Mayor Dale reported that the runway is being built without a taxiway because they had a cease and desist order from DCA. Mr. Howell questioned why you would have a runway without a taxiway, and noted that a taxiway requires a The Mayor reported that a DRI would cost approximately several hundred thousand dollars, he's been trying to get it done since becoming mayor, and it's something which will have to be done eventually because they can't build the taxiway without it. At this time, Jimmy Goff, of HNTB and Brian Pendleton, the design engineer under contract to HNTB, came forward to the speaker's table. Mr. Goffreported that, under their sub-consultant agreement, it was the responsibility of Mr. Pendleton and Dr. Richards to prepare the application to the SJRWMD. He explained that it was his job to make sure the application was completed in a timely fashion and acknowledged that it was not done in a timely fashion. He further acknowledged that he is familiar with design criteria for dealing with the SJRWMD to show wetland impacts, and became very distressed when he E718672 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 197 21 19.98 realized that they did not have a surveyed wetland, because it's impossible to determine the impacts without a surveyed wetland. Mayor Dale asked Mr. Goff if he has ever seen a design dram before a delineated wetland survey is given to the design engineer. Mr. Goffexplained that this occurs many times in airport projects because federal funding becomes available in each quarter which causes airports around the country to expedite projects and in tum, this usually causes problems like those discussed tonight; in this situation, funding became available in the fourth quarter of 1997 and bids had to be taken before October 1, 1997. Mr. Goff reported that he found out that the wetland delineation survey had not been done when they began discussing the mitigation ratio at a meeting of the Mitigation Committee that the Authority had established, and that it was Mr. Pendleton's responsibility to make sure the wetland survey was done. Mr. Goff explained that he works for HNTB Corporation, was hired by the SAA, and answers to Mr. Cooke. Mayor Dale asked Mr. Pendleton if he told Mr. Cooke what the credits would be. In response, Mr. Pendleton explained that he had spoken to Mr. Cooke on Saturday while they were preparing the exhibits about a three-way telephone conversation he had with Ken Wright and Pat Frost on the previous Thursday. During the conversation, he asked Mr. Frost if there was any benefit to leaving the vegetation cut close to the ground, now that they know that the SJRWMD considers any tree removal a wetland impact, even if nonintrusive methods are used. Mr. Frost acknowledged that they could receive partial credit if they left the vegetation cut close to the ground to preserve at least part of the value of the wetland. He thought Mr. Frost said 1.5 credits per acre, compared to the 4.5 credits per acre for mitigation, but he wasn't sure and told Mr. Cooke on Saturday that he wasn't at all sure about the 1.5 credits, further noting that since it was Saturday, they couldn't ask Mr. Frost. Mr. Pendleton noted that the initial section that he fumished to the SAA on June 2, 1997 has changed very little from the current plan, and explained that the pavement is 75 feet wide, the fill to the top of the safety area is 150 feet, then slopes down to meet existing grade. Further, the width of the total impacted area of the wetlands is listed at 170 feet, but is now 185 feet due to side slopes. Mr. Pendleton explained that this ii based upon interpretation of the Corp's communication to Dr. Richards that the trees could be removed which is why they could get the wetland impact under three acres. He stressed that they never fudge or adjust the lines; they measure things as they are. Mayor Dale noted that on the application to SJRWMD, Mr. Pendleton showed the cross sections were for tree removal. In response; Mr. Pendleton explained that what he showed on the application is limits of the fill on the runway, and he wasn't so concemed about width, as from June or July, 1997, the SAA planned to cut down all the trees in that entire area. This was based on Thad Hart of the Corp stating to Dr. Richards that the trees could be cut down as long as nonintrusive methods were used and the ground was not disturbed; the Corp would not consider this to be an impact. Mr. Pendleton further explained that Dr. Richards was optimistic that this could also be accomplished with the SJRWMD. He then acknowledged that based on the hindsight he now has, he would've done things differently, but he was depending on the tree clearing being a separate activity. He explained that Mr. Cooke asked him to do outline specifications for a quick bid for clearing of the entire area and noted that Jack Reynolds of the FAA had recommended clearing all the trees as soon as permission was given to cut down the tree containing the eagle' s nest. Mr. Pendleton reported that the only way they were able to do the job was to start 198 E718672 City MINUTES Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MTG. April 21 19-- 98 without a task order because they didn't have enough time to design three FAA projects in the allotted time period. They received the task order to do the ARFF Station, site improvements and Taxiway Bravo west extension on August 1, 1997 and for the runway on August 20, 1997; bids were due on September 16. Even while the Environmental Assessment was in process and the job was not well defined, he was proactively trying to define the project as quickly as he could; he tried to do everything he could to get the design going as early as possible. Mr. Pendleton acknowledged that he received his direction to start on the project from Mr. Cooke. Further, he has been a licensed, professional engineer since 1981, has worked for airports primarily since 1980, has worked for the Orlando Sanford Airport since 1978 - 1979, and is fairly familiar with State wetlands regulations, although he depends a lot on Dr. Richards. Further, he is familiar with most of the SJRWMD regulations regarding wetlands, specifically that the first thing you need to do on a project is have an environmental consultant do a level 1 assessment to identify wetlands on site. He acknowledged that he knew there was a wetland where they were building the runway. Mr. Wright asserted that Mr. Pendleton, as a professional engineer, had to have known that he was required to get a permit from the SJRWMD for wetland impact, to which Mr. Pendleton responded by noting that was why he put the wetland limits to the extent he knew them on the application. Mr. Wright then asked him if he had ever told anyone that the wetlands needed to be delineated beyond the extent that he knew them, and Mr. Pendleton explained that the drawings submitted to the SJRWMD were identified as preliminary with the SJRWMD wetlands line delineated from an aerial, and he was relying on Dr. Richards. When Mr. Wright questioned when the preliminary application changed to one for the SJRWMD to review, Mr. Pendleton acknowledged that he should have insisted that it be more than preliminary at that time, and that he expressed his concem regarding this to Dr. Richards and Mr. Cooke. Mr. Wright asked Mr. Pendleton if he had ever alerted Mr. Cooke or Mr. Goffto the fact that the preliminary SJRWMD wetland line was a problem, and Mr. Pendleton stated that he didn't believe so. Mr. Pendleton then reported that the wetland was flagged by Tony Miller on March 24, 1998, and is no longer preliminary. Mr. Wright expressed concern that the wetlands were flagged on March 24, when he was trying to get their request to the April board meeting, and noted that one of the plans on display has been changed since he received them from Mr. Pendleton on the previous Friday. Mr. Pendleton explained that on Saturday he discussed the plans with Mr. Cooke, and made several adjustments, including the runway protection zone (RPZ),and the line of sight vision at the end of the runway. He further explained that the plans faxed to Mr. Wright should've indicated that it was preliminary, for coordination purposes only. Mr. Wright noted that Mr. Pendleton has worked on the project for almost a year and questioned why he didn't receive a delineation of the wetland impact until yesterday. Mr. Pendleton explained that the clearing line was not on the drawing which created some confusion; however, he didn't show it because the clearing was under separate contract and was always intended to be a separate activity. He further explained that Dr. Richards told him they had Corp clearance to cut the trees and he believed he could get that same determination from the SJRWMD because they have given the Airport permission to remove trees in other locations using nonintrusive methods, a non-permitted activity. In August, 1997, Dr. Richards wrote to the SJRWMD requesting that some slash pine forested areas be removed using nonintrusive methods. MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 199 21 ]998 Mayor Dale questioned whether this letter referred to both the uplands and the wetlands, to which Dr. Richards responded that it was clearly understood that they had to request authorization from the SJRWMD to remove trees that were in both the uplands and wetlands. Mr. Wright explained that he and Dr. Richards know, and Mr. Pendleton should know, that under the environmental resource permit process of the SJRWMD, you can't start razing a forested wetland without at least delineating that activity and mitigating for it. He again questioned why it has taken almost a year to find out what the wetland impacts are, and asserted that Mr. Pendleton is either a)testifying to what may be an E & O claim, saying that he is ignorant of the SJRWMD requirements and ERP regulations when confronted with known jurisdictional wetlands, or b)somebody has told him to deal with it later. Mr. Wright stressed that they are still having to deal with this, dollars and time are precious, and the consequences are grave. He then asked Mr. Pendleton if there was any reason other than negligence on his pan that this application was not made and the SJRWMD still does not have a map of the delineated wetlands impact. Mr. Pendleton explained that Mr. Cooke told him he wanted to do the tree clearing as a separate project, but did not tell him not to show it on the plans. Mr. Wright questioned the inclusion of a notation on page G-3 which references the clear zone, without showing the clear zone. In response, Mr. Pendleton explained that based on what he misunderstood from Dr. Richards, he believed it could be done without being a wetland impact. Further, he discussed it with Mr. Cooke on March 27, 1998, and they agreed to disclose through Mr. Pendleton's notation that there would be clearing beyond the runway construction limits. In response to a question from Mr. Adamson regarding the size of the area, Mr. Pendleton explained they reduced the area down to three acres by using the Corp' s definition that trees could be cut flush with grade using nonintrusive methods, and reduced it to less than three acres by steepening the slopes to the maximum allowed by FAA. Mr. Adamson expressed a feeling of confidence that Mr. Pendleton was doing the right thing consciously without dotting every 'T' and crossing every "t" as they're suggesting that he needed to do. Mr. Pendleton stated that he believed it was acceptable to remove the trees flush with grade without constituting a impact. Dr. Richards explained that there is little or no exception to the wetlands flagged on the west side of the major wetland area; these were jurisdictional Corp and anytime you went into that, you would have impact. He reiterated that he said you could remove trees if you had permits and authorization on the methods for cutting and removal; there was never any question those trees were in the wetlands. Mr. Pendleton acknowledged that he thought you could remove the trees, but it had to be permitted. Mr. Robertson asked if the SAA members are there at the meeting to be asked to resign, and questioned who is liable for the errors and omissions that have occurred. He noted that the SAA should know what's going on and he doesn't feel like he does. Mayor Dale explained that they're here to hear the facts because you can't make intelligent decisions without knowing the facts. Mr. Wright explained that they have an experienced professional engineer who says he doesn't know that cutting down trees in the wetland is an impact to the SJRWMD, and Mr. Wright thinks he knows better; if he doesn't, that in 200 E~18~T2 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 21 98 19 itself is probably a claim. Mr. Wright then expressed his concerns about the delay in determining the size of the wetland and the fact that the direct impacts to the wetland have still not been stated. He explained that a plan was dram showing the wetland going through without depicting the clear zone, yet there was a notation indicating that was going to happen. If somebody hadn't caught the notation, the SJRWMD would've reviewed, issued a permit, and we would've paid mitigation for the direct impacts going through. He then suggested that the decision to show the clear zone on the plan was made when they found out somebody was coming out to the site. Mr. Pendleton explained that the clearing was planned to be a future permitting activity. He stressed that Mr. Cooke directed him that the clearing was to be done separately and he didn't have the foresight to get that included in the same permit. He asserted that this is policy, not errors. Mr. Pendleton noted that the meeting attended by Mr. Pendleton, Steve Cooke, Dr. Richards and the Mayor with SJRWMD occurred on January 8, rather than in March as earlier stated, at which time he stated that based on the information he was given by the wetlands specialist, there were no wetlands in the area of the clearing and grubbing permit. Further, he did not know that the area on the west side of the canal was a wetland. Mayor Dale referenced earlier testimony by Mr. Pendleton that he did not recall bringing to Mr. Cooke's attention the need for a permit for tree trimming in the cross section. Mr. Pendleton explained that he brought the need for a permit for tree trimming to Mr. Cooke' s attention in a letter in June, but stressed that earlier he said that he probably did not bring to Mr. Cooke' s attention the need to get the wetland physically flagged so it could be surveyed, because he was discussing that with Mr. Richards. Mayor Dale referenced the notations on letters dated May 27 and June 2, 1997, and asked Mr. Pendleton if it is his handwriting, to which Mr. Pendleton responded that it is his handwriting on the letters, and the notations were made when he faxed the letters to Mr. Richards. Mayor Dale read aloud the notation in which Mr. Pendleton writes that Mr. Cooke says they must find a way to get the impact below three acres, and noted that the word "must" is underlined. Further, Mr. Pendleton wrote that he had found a way to get the impact below three acres provided the vegetation can be removed from the wetland area without this activity being considered an impact. In response to Mayor Dale, Mr. Pendleton acknowledged that he knew that someone had to determine whether or not the proposed activity was an impact. Mr. Pendleton explained that they needed to meet with Jack Reynolds of the FAA and come to an agreement regarding how many trees to clear and then go to the SJRWMD to discuss how it could be done. Further, now that they know that mitigation is required, Mr. Cooke has had a meeting with Jack Reynolds and determined that a very minimal amount should be removed. Mayor Dale then referenced Mr. Pendleton's notation that everything is conditioned upon agency approval and Mr. Pendleton acknowledged that the agency was the SJRWMD. Pat Frost, Assistant Director of the SJRWMD Regulatory Department in Palatka, and Henry Dean, Executive Director of SJRWMD, came forward to the speaker' s table. Mr. Frost reported that this is the seventh and eighth modifications of the permit and noted that he became involved in the project in early March, 1998, at a meeting with Mayor Dale, Ken Wright and Dr. Richards to discuss mitigating for wetland impacts. The application for the project, inclusive of the runway, Taxiway B, AARF station, and an access roadway, came in sometime in February or March. He noted that his staff and the Airport staff were looking at mitigation E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 201 21 19-- 98 offsite, with Site 10, the City's wastewater reuse facility, being a possible site to place a conservation easement so the clearing and grading permit project could get underway, with the idea that soon thereafter they would get all the necessary design detail for the overall project to take to the next possible board meeting. Mr. Frost explained that this is dependant upon the SAA as the applicant as the SJRWMD has requested additional information. He noted that they try to get permit applications in and out in under 100 days, and for this project application to be received in February, a May board meeting would be a typical target. He explained that objections to the project can slow the process down, and he believes this project has that potential since they've already been contacted by the Audubon Society with their concerns. Mr. Frost noted that they are still determining what the exact impacts are, and they would get it to the May board meeting if possible; however they' re noticing requirements mandate that they give 19 days notice from date of mailing, and for the May board meeting, that day is tomorrow. Mr. Frost noted that there are four things to bring before the SJRWMD board: 1 )Taxiway Bravo, which has the highest priority; 2)the AARF station; 3)an access road; and 4)the touch-and-go runway. They have already primarily dealt with all the wetland impacts for the taxiway, the access road and the AARF station, and if they got a separate application tomorrow dealing with just Taxiway B, or with the access road and AARF, he thinks they could get to the May board meeting. He suggested that they submit a letter, delete everything controversial and re-apply separately for the runway. Mr. Frost noted that they had suggested this earlier to the SAA as a way to get to the April board meeting, and the Orlando office was generous in trying to stretch timelines and shorten review time to try to facilitate this. Mr. Pendleton reported that he had not taken Mr. Frost' s suggestion because Mr. Wright told him not to, but to be prepared to act qnicldy if the determination tonight is to take out the rimway. He then stated that he would do whatever needed to be done and be at the SJRWMD tomorrow morning. In response to Ms. Glenn' s question regarding possible mitigation for the road, Mr. Frost stated that he believed it would be much less than the mitigation involved in the clearing and grubbing permit issued in March which included Taxiway B clearing, and the beginning of the clearing for the runway. He noted that one simple way to mitigate this would be to increase the mitigation area at Site 10, and another is to use a mitigation bank, of which at least two have the Airport in their service area. Mr. Wright questioned if there had ever been discussion at the SJRWMD about doing an overall wetlands delineation at the Airport. Mr. Frost reported that there is a formal wetland delineation permit whereby you apply to SJRWMD for a permit for the boundary of the wetland, noting that it's not suitable for long-range planning as it's only good for five years. He further explained that over the years they have discussed with Airport staff and consultants the value in developing a master plan and getting a conceptual permit for an entire site; and noted that this doesn't require a wetland survey. Mr. Adamson recommended that they move immediately to submit Taxiway B, and submit the AARF station and the access road separately. Mr. Frost reported that the permit for the AARF station is still pending, that the construction of the fire station has proceeded beyond what was authorized as clearing and preliminary earth work; the pad may be down and the structure may be going up which is not authorized. He explained that a clearing and grubbing permit entails clearing and grubbing, and some grading but not to the extent it can't be changed. Further, it typically doesn't involve wetland impact and would not include 202 E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 21 19.98 placement of impervious surfaces. Mr. Frost explained that the consequences of the Airport's violation could be a consent order and recommendation of a penalty to the Board. However, the Airport can get a permit issued for the fire station before that issue is resolved. Mr. Cooke reported that they obviously made a mistake; they thought it was okay to proceed on the AARF station. Following discussion, Mr. Frost acknowledged that a stop work order on the AARF station is coming. Mayor Dale questioned whether the violation of the clearing and grubbing permit will affect the permit for Taxiway B, and Mr. Frost acknowledged that in the past, the Board has taken an interest in such situations. Mr. Frost explained that part of the Environmental Resource Rule says that in reviewing a permit application, they can take a history of noncompliance into account in their recommendation to the Board. However, the Board can't deny a permit application because there is a violation, although they are not obligated to take action until 90 days from when the application is complete. Mr. Frost noted that they have received a request for an emergency executive order for Taxiway Bravo. Mr. Wright explained that the Executive Director is empowered to issue an emergency order in unforeseeable circumstances, subject to the Board's modifications at the next meeting. However, ignorance of wetlands regulations does not qualify as unforeseeable and they must revise the request accordingly. Mr. Adamson noted that Mr. Cooke' s letter attributes the unforeseeable circumstances to an unforeseen increase in traffic. Commissioner Williams expressed her appreciation of Mr. Wright' s knowledge as demonstrated through his input at this meeting, and stressed that others should take advantage of what he has to offer. Mr. Adamson expressed his appreciation for the tremendous amount of work that Mr. Wright has done for the Authority. Following discussion, the Commission and Authority concurred that Mr. Wright would be the lead contact on the mitigation effort with Pat Frost and his staff. Henry Dean reported that the letter requesting an executive order arrived in his office that afternoon, and he hasn't had time to review the request. He explained that in addition to a safety issue, there must be unforeseeable circumstances, and based on what he' s heard tonight, he is doubtful that test can be met and will be discussing this matter with their attorney tomorrow. Mr. Wright reported that they are still in the process of determining the wetland line as Tony Miller has conceded that only about half of the plowed field in the wetland area near Beardall Avenue is wetland jurisdictional and they may be able to prevail that part of the pond having 1.25 acres impact is upland. Once they determine the wetlands line and know what the total impacts are, they can proceed with determining the mitigation ratios and credits, and anticipate making the June or July board meeting. Mr. Adamson asked Mr. Dean to take into consideration that this is also a major business issue for the City of Sanford, noting that the airlines want Taxiway B to increase operational efficiency, and he has been told that if one airline leaves, they will all leave. Mayor Dale concurred that this is a serious issue and reported that he has been receiving phone calls from London for months regarding this matter. E718672 MINUTES City Commission, Sanford, Florida AIRPORT/COMM. MEETING April 203 21 1~8 Commissioner Willjams questioned who the SJRWMD is holding accountable for the violations, the Airport Authority or the City Commission, and Mr. Frost explained that the Sanford Airport Authority, as the party to which the permit was issued, is responsible for any violations to that permit. Mayor Dale further explained that the ultimate responsibility is the City' s because the Sanford Airport Authority is appointed by the City Commission. Commissioner Willjams acknowledged that as a result of this meeting, she is more convinced of the need to be cognizant of what's happening at the Airport. Mayor Dale explained that mitigation will be several hundred thousand dollars and noted that there are some funding sources available. The City Commission and SAA expressed their appreciation to Mr. Dean and Mr. Frost for coming to the meeting. Mr. Howell reported that he is now well aware of the problems the Airport has and made a motion to ask for Mr. Cooke' s resignation, give him six months severance pay and appoint Mr. Coover as interim director. Ms. Glenn explained that she preferred that they close the City Commission meeting and reconvene for any Airport business. There being no further business, the joint meeting of the City Commission and the Sanford Airport Authority was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Attest: dc