031207 ws agenda & min.
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C. C. .. S I-" d PI 'dWork SessionlPrivate Mtg
Ity OIIl1Il1SSlOn, anJ.Of, on a
March 12, 2007
EOOSI4441DW
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MONDAY, MARCH 12,2007
4:00 PM
Railroad Depot Room
2nd Floor
Sanford City Han
300 North Park Avenue
Sanford, Florida
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PERSONS WITH A DISABILITY, SUCH AS A VISION, HEARING OR SPEECH IMPAIRMENT, OR PERSONS NEEDING OTHER TYPES OF ASSISTANCE, AND WHO WISH TO ATTEND
CITY COMMISSION MEETINGS OR ANY OTHER BOARD OR COMMITTEE MEETING MAY CONTACf THE CITY CLERK IN WRITING, OR MAY CALL 407.330.5603 FOR
INFORMATION REGARDING AVAILABLE AIDS AND SERVICES.
............"M...... ~ _110"'o
PURSUANT TO SECTION 286.0105, FLORIDA STA TIJTES, IF ANY PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL ANY DECISION MADE BY THE CITY COMMISSION WITH RESPEcr TO ANY MATTER
CONSIDERED AT THIS PUBUC MEETlNG,SUCH PERSON WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS AND FOR SUCH PURPOSE, SUCH PERSON MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A
VERBA TIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, INCLUDING THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. Tbls record Is Dot provided by the
City or SaDford.
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AGENDA
1)
Briefing on Downtown Disabled Parking Availability and Usage. [Commission Memo 07-072]
2) Briefmg on Capital Improvement Plans for the Sanford/Seminole County Chamber of Commerce building. [Commission
Memo 07..076]
3) Laser Shot Demonstration.
4) Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Inc., First Quarter 2007 Progress Update.
5) Agenda Items - additional information and/or questions.
6) END THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THE MEETING.
7) Begin Attorney.. Client Private Meeting. Requested by the City Attorney to seek advice from the City Commission concerning
ongoing litigation to which the City is a party.
Persons attending may include:
City Commission
City Manager Robert YehI
Kenneth W. McIntosh
Certified Court Reporter
8)
END THE PRIVATE MEETING.
42
MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Work SessioolPrivate Mt2
March 12.2007
EOOSl444lDW
The City Commission of the City ofSanford~ Florida, met in Work Session on Monday, March 12,2007, at 4
PM, in the Railroad Depot Room, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 300 North Park Avenue, Sanfor~ Florida.
Present:
Mayor Linda Kuhn
Vice Mayor Velma Williams
Commissioner Art Woodruff
Commissioner Randy Jones
Commissioner Jack T. Bridges
City Manager Robert (Sherman) Yehl
City Clerk Janet R. Dougherty
Deputy City Clerk Cynthia Porter
]
Absent:
City Attorney William L. Colbert
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Mayor Kuhn called the Work Session to order at 4:05 PM.
~
1) Briefing on Downtown Disabled Parking Availability and Usage. [Commission Memo 07-072]
Planning & Development Services Project Manager Chris Smith reviewed the 2007 Disabled Parking Study and
the Commission Memorandum provided in today's Agenda.
2) Briefing on Capital Improvement Plans for the Sanford/Seminole County Chamber of Commerce building.
[Commission Memo 07-076]
Sanford/Seminole County Chamber of Commerce Executive Director Pat Hicks reviewed and discussed the
proposed capital improvements for the Chamber building.
City Manager Yehl said that in two weeks he will bring back a proposed lease agreement which addresses
building maintenance, capital improvements, and other things.
3) Laser Shot Demonstration.
Sanford Police Officers Pedro Rivera and John Labree gave a laser shot demonstration.
........
4)
Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Inc., First Quarter 2007 Progress Update.
IIoiIIIIII
Mayor Kuhn distributed the Historic Sanford Welcome Center financials for the period of October 1,2005
through December 31, 2006.
5) Agenda Items - additional information and/or questions.
City Manager Yehl said that there will be an Add-on item tonight regarding 2900 Orlando Drive.
The Commission discussed what should be painted on the Waste Pro solid waste trucks which will service
Sanfor~ and agreed on the RiverWalk logo and website address, in addition to something clever yet to be determined.
6) END THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THE MEETING.
Mayor Kuhn adjourned the public portion of the Work Session at 5:20 PM.
7) Begin Attorney-Client Private Meeting requested by the City Attorney to seek advice from the City Commission
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concerning ongoing litigation to which the City is a party. Persons attending may include the City Commission, City
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Manager Robert Yehl, Assistant City Attorney Kenneth W. McIntosh, and a Certified Court Reporter.
8) END THE PRIVATE MEETING.
There being no further business, the Private Meeting was adjourned.
..,
~yof -& Kuhn .:.~,. L___
...
Attest:
~./Jw~
cp
The City Commission of the City of Sanford, Florida, met in Work Session on Monday, March 12,2007. at 4
PM, in the Railroad Depot Room, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 300 North Park Avenue, Sanford, Florida.
Present:
Mayor Linda Kuhn
Vice Mayor Velma Williams
Commissioner Art Woodruff
Commissioner Randy Jones
Commissioner Jack T. Bridges
City Manager Robert (Sherman) Yehl
City Clerk Janet R. Dougherty
Deputy City Clerk Cynthia Porter
Absent:
City Attorney William L. Colbert
Mayor Kuhn called the Work Session to order at 4:05 PM.
1) Briefing on Downtown Disabled Parking Availability and Usage. [Commission Memo 07-072]
Planning & Development Services Project Manager Chris Smith reviewed the 2007 Disabled Parking Study and
the Commission Memorandwn provided in today's Agenda.
2) Briefing on Capital Improvement Plans for the Sanford/Seminole County Chamber of Commerce building.
[Commission Memo 07-076]
Sanford/Seminole County Chamber of Commerce Executive Director Pat Hicks reviewed and discussed the
proposed capital improvements for the Chamber building.
City Manager Yehl said that in two weeks he will bring back a proposed lease agreement which addresses
building maintenance, capital improvements, and other things.
3) Laser Shot Demonstration.
Sanford Police Officers Pedro Rivera and John Labree gave a laser shot demonstration.
4) Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Inc., First Quarter 2007 Progress Update.
Mayor Kuhn distributed the Historic Sanford Welcome Center financials for the period of October 1, 2005
through December 31, 2006.
5) Agenda Items - additional information and/or questions.
City Manager Yehl said that there will be an Add-on item tonight regarding 2900 Orlando Drive.
The Commission discussed what should be painted on the Waste Pro solid waste trucks which will service
Sanford, and agreed on the RiverWalk logo and website address, in addition to something clever yet to be determined.
6) END THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THE MEETING.
Mayor Kuhn adjourned the public portion of the Work Session at 5 :20 PM.
7) Begin Attorney-Client Private Meeting requested by the City Attorney to seek advice from the City Commission
concerning ongoing litigation to which the City is a party. Persons attending may include the City Commission, City
Manager Robert Yehl, Assistant City Attorney Kenneth W. McIntosh, and a Certified Court Reporter.
8) END THE PRIVATE MEETING.
There being no further business, the Private Meeting was adjourned.
Mayor Linda Kuhn
Attest:
City Clerk
cp
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42A
City Commission, Sanford, Florida Exeelltin~ 8essi8B
Mareh 12, 2997
E00514441DW
MEMORANDUM
Stel1Str~ MCIntosh, Colbert, wbiebam It partlow, P.A.
1001 Heathrow park Lane, SMite 4001
take Ma~ Floma 32-746
1407) 32.2. "2.I71
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
Janet R. Dougherty, City Clerk
Lonnie N. Groot, Assistant City Attorney ~
Apri16,2009
SUBJECT: Release of Transcript as Pubtic Recordi March 12, 2007;
Mayfair Golf Course dispute I. . .
CC: William L. Colbert, City Attorney
The purpose of thi$ memorandum is to advise you that the transcript of the proceedings
of the CltY-~~ng on March 12, 2007 relating to the Mayfair Golf Course
diSP~~~_~.r.~~sed ~UbIiC review and inspection, as public records.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Please feel free to call with questions.
Please call me anytime at the office (407-322-2171) or at my cell phone (386-748-3685)
if I can be of assistance to yo~ in any way. I answer my cell phone 24 hours a day.
I look forward to seeing you again soon.
~
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428
EOOSl4441DW
MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
March 1'7, ..JO.OL
Exrtutivoe SeniOD
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cnY OF SbNRRJ
cnY CDlMISSICN v.mK SESSICN
ATTmNEY /G...IENT PRIVATE rVEETThG
tvMGI 12TH, 2007
RAILR06D DEFUT ROOVI
2~ FLCXR
SbNRRJ cnY t-W...L
300 f\brth Park Avenue
sanford, Flori eta
5:17 p.m. to 6:13 p.m.
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19 APPEARAt<<ES:
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Linda Kuhn Mayor
Art \\tXldruff, camri ssi oner
Ra[1dy Jones, camri ssi oner
ve 1rra wi 11 i ams, camri ssi oner
Jack Bri9ges, camrissioner
Mi ~e ~i rbV, Lei sure ~rvi ce Di rector
Kn stl AiBy, Deputy a ty Manager
Kenneth MCIntosh, Attorney
sheman veh1, dty Attorney
SEMD\OLE RE~ If\C.
(407) 831-oqw
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MINUTES
42C
City Commission, Sanford, FloridaE:x.e~utivf: Sf:iliiQD
Marc:h 12,2007
E0051444IDW
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PROCEEDINGS
1\tR. IVCINTOSH: cood day Mayor, gJOd day
everyl:xxjy .
lHE MAYeR: Mr. IVIcIntosh, hoN are you doi ng?
1\tR. IVCINTOSH: cood, so far. Okay. Mayor, I'm
ready for you to open the speci a 1 sessi on, if you
please, pursuant to chapter 286.011 parentheses 8
parentheses .
lHE MAYeR: Okay. I call this session to order.
1\tR. IVCINTOSH: I-bJV long, please, ma' am, do you
anti ci pate the sessi on to 1 ast?
lHE MAYeR: As long as necessary.
1\tR. IVCINTOSH: okay. Approxi mate 1 y 30 mi nutes,
V\OUld that be appropriate?
lHE MAYeR: " Yes, si r.
1\tR. IVCINTOSH: okay. The i ndi vi duals in
attendance have been appropri ate 1 y noti fi ed by the
clerk. Is that correct?
lHE MAYeR: Yes, si r.
1\tR. ~N1DSH : All ri ght. And VI.e are ready to
proceed wi th a matter for consi derati on by the
carmi ssi on in accordance wi th the statute.
speci fi c thi ngs that \\e' re interested in,
tv1erDers of the canni ssi on, is VI.e' re here rreeti ng in
private with your assistant attorney to discuss VIAlat
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SEl\t1:W)LE REPCRTThG INC.
(407) 831-6400
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MINUTES
420
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
F;'l:pl'lItivp Sp~~inn
Marl'h 12,2(:U1....-
E00514441DW
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~ categlri ze as pendi ng 1 i ti gati on wi th that vJ1i ch
is kroM1 as the Mayfai r COUntry cl ub, also kroM1 as
seni no 1 e cl ub, Incorporated.
we are here today in a strategy sessi on related
to anti ci pated 1 i ti gati on in conj uncti on wi th that
rratter.
Appropri ate noti ce has been given. we have
call ed in the hall dot.nstai rs and outsi de and there I s
no i neti vi dual Wlo has evi denced they desi re to be
i nc 1 uded in thi s nEeti ng in vi 01 ati on of the statute.
~, ~ have a team of i ndivi dual s that have
been V\Orki ng under the tutelage and i nstructi on of
the ci ty rranager in conjuncti on wi th the Mayfai r
COUntry cl ub rratter.
A default letter, please, was issued on t\Ovemer
the 3rd, 2006, an extension was granted by reason of
necessi ty wi th reference to shoNi ng us and cleve 1 opi ng
i nfomati on that ~ requested in our default 1 etter .
we received re5JD1ses on January the 5th, 2007,
wi th a request for addi ti anal i nfomati on subni tted
to seni no 1 e cl ub on January the 12th, 2007.
I have handed to you today a camuni cation fran
Shuffield, LoNnan, and the specific attomey in that
group has been assi gned to thi s case and bri ng to
your attenti on sare prob 1 ens .
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SEMI~ RE~ INC.
(407) 831-t)'IW
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MINUTES
42E
City Commission, Sanford, FloridExecutive Session
March 12, 2007
E00514441DW
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...... 1 NuTber 1, if you read the fi rst date of the
2 1 etter dated February the 19th, if you look at the
3 second page of the 1 etter, it's dated February the
........ 4 23rd, if you look at the thi rd page it's dated
........ 5 February the 23rd.
6 01 the 7th day of IVIarch fran Jacksonville,
7 Flori da, I camuni cated wi th the attorney for
8 shuffi e 1 d, LONrBn and sarri no 1 e, Inc., and he faxed to
9 our office on March the 7th this camunication.
10 111i s camuni cati on is the 1 atest camuni cati on
11 that has been received by the d ty, and as ~ look at
12 the 1 ast page, Page NuTber 4, it's obvi ous to us that
13 thi s rratter noN takes on the characteri sti cs of
14 serious litigation in that they feel that they have
!l""- 15 fulfilled all of their responsibilities to the city
...... 16 and are seeki ng a -- an appropri ate ti Ire conveni ent
17 to everyone to exchange the rent and the i rri gati on
18 1 ease payments.
19 we have escroAed the irrigation lease payments
20 pursuant to instructions fran the city manager and
21 the lVIayfai r team in anti ci pati on of appeari ng before
22 the dty camrission for instruction with reference to
23 this specific case.
24 we have had an apprai sa 1 conducted at the
25 suggesti on of rrarbers of the team, and sped fi call y
,... SEMIr\OLE RERlUIN:i The.
j (407) 831-6400
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MINUTES
42F
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
FYe~'Jtive Senion
MlJIr~h 17, 20.0:L.
E00514441DW
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Kri sti Aday, Mr. Pou 1 a 1 ion, the ci ty manager and the
fonrer assi stant attorney, Lonni e Groot. That
specific product is available for our use today, and
I VIOU 1 d thi nk it VIOU 1 d be very i rflX)rtant for you to
give consideration to that matter.
sanethi ng that I thi nk is i rflX)rtant for us to
renerber is that \\e have, if you please, i nheri ted
the subject matter that is currently before us.
The 1 ease tenn, as you wi 11 probably renerber,
is sixty-seven years seven rronths. The lease began
on rvlarch the 11th, ~81, and is anticipated for
expi rati on October the 10th,. 2048.
t-tJN, the apprai sa 1 that has been prepared bears
a date of January the 7th of 2007, and the offi ci a 1
1 etter date is January the 15th, 2007.
callONaY &. Pri ce, Incorporated, are the
i ndi vi dual s that \\ere reslDlsi b 1 e for the apprai sa 1 ,
the speci fi c di rector of consul ti ng servi ces was
Ri chard B. si nger .
And I VIOUld like to bring to your attention that
\M1i ch is the product of the apprai sa 1 . Nurber 1, it
is our opi ni on that the market val ue of the fee
sirrple estate of the subject property, as of January
the 15th, 2007, is one million four hundred thousand
dollars.
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SEMUUE RER:RTThG INC.
(407) 831-6400
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EOO514441DW
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida RXP'('lItivp. Session
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second rratter for your consi derati on, as a
result of our investigation and analysis of
i nfomati on obtai ned therefran, as ~ 11 as general
knoNledge of real estate valuation procedure, it is
our opinion that the rrarket value of the leased fee
interest of the subject property, assuning a
perfonni ng 1 ease as of January 15th, 2007, that
~ 1 d be unti 1 the end of the 1 ease is \II.Orth
$340,(XX).
Gi vi ng consi derati on to all rratters, its opi ni on
is that the rrarket val ue of the 1 easeho 1 d interest
fran the Camalcarent of the 1 ease unti 1 the
tennination of the lease is one million and sixty
thousand cbllars.
we have camuni eated wi th Mr. si nger di 1 i gently
wi th reference to the apprai sa 1 for Mayfai r COUntry
club, and Wlat V\e knoN as saninole club,
Incorporated.
And he has wi thout hesi tancy i ndi eated that he
gave consideration to fwr rrajor similar courses in
the area, and that on a seal e of zero to ten, fi ve
being the average course in the market area, the
sani no 1 e cl ub, Mayfai r COUntry cl ub, is in the area
of SCJlB'Ihere betvveen a one and a half and a 1\\0.
It is eateg>ri zed as a prob 1 an fran the
SEMIt-VLE RE~ The.
e 407) 831-oqw
March 12.2007
6
MINUTES
42H
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Executive Session
March 12, 2007
EOO514441DW
7
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1 standpoint of its current condition and its current
2 operati on. J
3 The 1 ease that \\e have authori zes us in the
4 event that \\e have i ntri cate questi ons regardi ng the
5 operation to seek an audit.
6 we W)lJ 1 d i ndi cate to you today that no audi t has
7 been sought, because \\e have tried to maintain
8 reasonable expense consci ousness in conj uncti on wi th
9 thi s rmtter. An audi t W)lJ 1 d cost SCJneAf1ere bet.\\een
10 ten and fourteen thousand doll ars .
11 The individual vJ10 performed this specific
12 anal ysi s gave attenti on to data that \^JClS prepared
13 pursuant to our default notice as to the operation of J
14 the sani no 1 e cl ~b and hi s general krnv 1 edge of
15 similar situations, fran the standpoint of gross
16 production based upon play at a similar course and
17 expenses connected thereNi th.
18 we stand before you today seeki ng i nstructi on,
19 and that specific instruction \\el re seeking is on
20 behalf of the city rranager, his designee and that
21 \t'A1i ch is I<nc:Mn as the rvlayfai r team, to determi ne that
22 course of interest and that course of conduct that
23 the dty camrission desi res to pursue in conjunction
24 with the Mayfai r situation. ]
25 The speci fi c authori ty that \\e are seeki ng is
SEMIt\OLE RE~ If\C.
(407) 831-
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MINUTES
421
City Commission, Sanford, Florid::JF.'l:ef"utive Session
March 12. 2007
E00514441DW
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1 sanethi ng that ~ need to give attention to, and that
2 is NLrTtler 1, the IDtenti a 1 termi nati on of the 1 ease.
3 NLrTtler 2 is the IDtenti a 1 of havi ng a recei ver
,..""
I 4 appoi nted in conj uncti on wi th that termi nati on
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5 action.
6 NLrTtler 3 is the IDssi bi 1 i ty of the ci ty of
7 sanford declaring a resolution of necessity and
8 attaTpti ng to condam the rami ni ng 1 easeho 1 d
9 interest that there is avai 1 able beU\eer'1 I10N and the
10 ti rre that the 1 ease expi res.
11 Those rratters are for your consideration.
12 Kri sti Aday, the Deputy ci ty IVIanager, has
13 gathered a great deal of i nfomati on wi th reference
14 to the nature of defaults, has coopared that wi th
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IS i nfomati on tendered to us by the attorney for
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16 saninole club.
17 And she has concluded that sani no 1 e cl ub has
18 fall en short of its reslX)nsi bi 1 i ti es in conj uncti on
19 wi th the covenants, agreerents, sti pu 1 ati ons and
20 condi ti ons of the 1 ease.
21 TIle ci ty rranager desi res to get thi 5 rratter off
22 dead center.
23 I V\OU 1 d announce to you that thi 5 is an
24 i nheri ted rratter and as far as the camri ssi on is
25 concerned and that as you can see fran the rIDst
[
SEMIf\DLE REFaUThG lJ\C.
(407) 831-6400
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MINUTES
42J
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
F'YiP"lItiv~ ~iPnion
Marfh 1'~ 2001...
EOOSl4441DW
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1 recent letter received on the 7th day of March, they
2 anti ci pate W1at we \OJ 1 d categ>ri ze as probably a J
3 counterc 1 ai m agai nst the d ty for fai 1 i ng to make
4 ready pa~t of the i rri gati on rental, that is a
5 responsi bi 1 i ty cascaded on the shoulders of the
6 . .
carrm SSl on.
7 t\tJN, we anti ci pate that if a tenni nati on acti on
8 were i nsti tuted, both at the tri all eve 1 and at the
9 appe 11 ate 1 eve 1, the ti rre peri ad involved to conclude
10 the matter \OJ1d be sareM1ere between me1ve and
11 ei g,teen rrnnths.
12 In the event that a receiver were appoi nted by
13 the court, I an sure that seminole club v.ou1d stand J
14 back and do 1 i tt 1 e or nothi ng wi th reference to the
15 condition of the club and tum the matter over to us.
16 Mr. si nger has in the presence of Mr. veh 1 ,
17 assured him that he could identify an individual or a
18 group of i ndi vi duals or a corporati on that could
19 i mredi ate 1 y cane in and take over the
20 responsi bi 1 i ti es for Mayfai r country c1 ub to keep it
21 operati ona 1 in the event that that deci si on were
22 made .
23 If we proceeded under Chapter 73 and 74 to
24 condam the 1 easeho 1 d interest, it \OJ 1 d be the ]
25 respons; b; 1; ty of the d ty ; n the event of exerc; 5; ng
SEMIf\()lE RE~ IN:.
(407) 831-
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EOOSl4441DW
MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida Executive SenioD
March 12, 2007
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; ts qui ck taken authori ty under the statute and the
pcM.er of ani nent <:bra; n, to depos; t ; n the regi ster
; n the court an arrount equal to that \^kI; ch ; s
categ:>ri zed as the val ue of the 1 easeho 1 d ; nterest,
\^kIi ch V\OU 1 d be $340, (XX).
As you 1<noJv, there is a great deal of
infonnation that is shared in the city, \^kIich ~ have
tri ed to keep up wi th. The current operators and
OMlers of the 1 easeho 1 d i nterest feel s that ; tis
~rth "tY..O mi 11 i on doll ars .
\Ne thi nk that that is an exaggerated fi gure. \Ne
feel that \^kIen they fi na lly becane convi need that ~
are very ; nterested ; n do; ng sarethi ng wi th reference
to taki ng one of the three acti ons that V\e have
tal ked about, they' re ~; ng to want to camuni cate
wi th us, - fran the standpai nt of rredi ati ng a
sett 1 anent, if pass; b 1 e, wi th reference to the; r
1 easeho 1 d ; nterest.
As you 1<noJv, san; no 1 e cl ub ; s operated by a
family, they are a very tight group. And they have,
if you'll pardon nE, 1 i ved off of the tv1ayfa; r COUntry
cl ub and its gross proceeds for an extended peri ad of
tinE.
Mr. Ki rby and rnartJers of hi s team have taken
enUrlErab 1 e pi ctures and have been on the ground
SEM:If\llLE REFUUThoG ThC.
(407) 831-6400
MINUTES
42L
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Executh'e SeliliioD
Mardi 12, 200+-
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repeatedl y l00ki ng at the concIi ti on of the club.
Those things V'ilich you see in the letter
recei ved on March the 7th, fran the standj:X)i nt of all
of the thi ngs that they say that they have done, are
categ>ri zed by Mr. Ki rby and hi s team as
i nfi ni tesi na 1, gi ven consi derati on to V'ilat is needed
for thi s to becane a successful operati on.
we I re interested in seei ng Mayfai r COUntry cl ub,
by reason of its hi stori c deve lopnent, desi gnated on
the nati anal reg; ster as one of the hi stori c 9)1 f
clubs in the State of Florida, V'ilich could be done in
future days consi deri ng that it is a [()na 1 dRoSS
des.i gn .
I oou 1 d not hesi tate to tell you that I am
convi need that the 1 essees are 9)i ng to fi ght 1 i ke a
\^Wnded bear in conjuncti on wi th thi s natter, gi vi ng
consi deration to all of that V'ili ch has ~ on
hi stori call y .
f\ON, I cb not hesi tate to tell you in pri vate
session today that V\e cb not stand before you with
clean hands.
There are several defenses that can be presented
and confront us that V\e need to be very consci ous of
in the event that 1 i ti gati on is i nsti tuted pri or to
tryi ng in SOOE way to seek a sol uti on under the adage
SEMIt\OLE RERRfIr\(j IN(.
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida Ex~utR'e SellllioD
Mar~b 12, 2007
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of, care 1 et us reason together.
r-.nv, sore of those natters that ~. re g>i ng to
be confronted wi th is the defense of 1 ashes. Lashes
is a statanent w,erei n i ndi vi dual S knEW that
sarething \\as wrong or sarething that \\as g>ing on
that \\aSn' tin accordance wi th requi ranents of the
lease, but they have not taken aggressive action to
protect the covenants and condi ti ons of the 1 ease.
Nl.IriJer 2 defense is g>i ng to be the defense of
estoppel. They're g>i ng to say ~ are estop to deny
the fact that ~ have not pai d our i rri gation 1 ease
rental payment, w,i ch ~ feel that the court v\ou 1 d
gi ve attenti on to but v\ou 1 d not be i rrpressed wi th it
considering the condition of the club.
NurDer 3, I thi nk that the defense of waiver is
g>i ng to be presented, because I, in my
i nvesti gati on, have i nc 1 uded it on three separati on
occasions, the dty of sanford has confronted
5ani no 1 e cl ub wi th reference to prob 1 ens and have not
aggressi vel y gone to tenni nati on wi th reference to
thei r relationship with a lease, w,ich is as old as
thi s one is, si xty-seven years a 1 nust arroonts to an
interest in fee sirrple title.
we' re here today to seek QUi dance. we' re here
today for a strategy conference by reason of your
SEMIf\DLE REIUUIf\Xi IN:.
(407) 831-6400
MINUTES
42N
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
E.~eeBtYle Set9Si88
l\lanh 12, 2-9&9-
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knoNledge of the course and poople's reactioo thereto
and V\.e \l\ant you to authori ze the ci ty rmnager, hi s
desi gnee and hi s team, to do thi ngs that you thi nk
serve the best interest of the d ty of sanford.
Ole thi ng \\e knoN is that there are a group of
i ndi vi dual s , saneti mes kI'n'\rl as reti rees, VIklo love
thi s country club and wi 11 gather together wi th the
OM1er's operators in every way passi b 1 e to keep it
functi ooi ng 00 a regular basi s, so that they have
sOlEthi ng to do every roomi ng.
And they are ~i ng to be a source, if you
please, of camuni cati 00 pub 1 i ci ty, et cetera, and \\e
need to be coosci ous of that.
But please understand, there are just as many
poople in our camunity Wlo are greatly disappointed
wi th the condi ti on of the club.
The thi ngs that have been descri bed in the
1 etter of MarCh the 7th, that I categ:>ri ze as
infinitesimal, the arployment of a neN head greens
keePers, inprovarent of greens throughout the club,
substanti a 1 repai rs and refaci ng cart pads, the
rep 1 acetalt of an enti re fl eet of carts, \/\hi ch as you
knoN are operated and OM1ed by a separate
corporati on.
And it's very di fA cult to audi t the activi ti es
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida Exe~utive Sessi9R
Mardi 11, 1997
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of cart rental s as a part and parcel of the gross
i ncare of the corporati on Wli ch has the 1 ease.
The r8lDva 1 of Vl.eakened and dead trees came
about by reason of the hurricane. The driving range
i rrprovenent rreans putti ng up one half of the range
net, and that of course is the area Wlere individuals
might be injured or thei r vehicles injured by balls
that are not under control.
The clubhouse, i rrprovenents to the anteri or,
exi sti ng ~ 11 paper raroved, the expansi on and
i rrprovenent of the inventory at the pro shop, repal rs
underVJaY to roofi ng throughout.
If the carmi ssi on becares very interested in
thi s i tan and exami nes it thanse 1 ves as the
leaseholders, you're going to find that the
irrprovarents at the course are in deplorable
condition, and this is a beautiful course that
hi stori call y has had a \I\OI1derfu 1 reputati on duri ng
the era \'\hen they had qJens and other activi ti es here
and it has gone doM1 in its mai ntenance operati on.
Ranenber the anal ysi s, on a re 1 ati onshi p of zero
to ten, \\e are about a one and a half or a U\O.
Dubsdread, those of you Wlo are golfers knoN Wlere
that is, and it is a nunicipal course in the orlando
area, it V\OUld be categorized as a six or a seven on
SEMIf\UE RERRfII'Xi INC.
(407) 831-6400
MINUTES
42P
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Exec.ut;ye Se~~;ul.
Man::). 12, 266'T
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the scale of zero to ten.
The anal ysi s of the apprai sa 1 that you have has
cane fran an analysis of four rrajor gllf courses that
\!\ere operated and in severe prob 1 ens si mi 1 ar to that
VIkli ch the ~yfai r is in at the present ti me, and have
cane up wi th these numers.
Realistically, cb I think a jury called before
the d rcui t COUrt of sani no 1 e COUnty \I\OU 1 d cone 1 ude
that the remi ni ng 1 easeho 1 d interest is VIOrth
$340,(XX), I've tried to keep my ear to the ground
si nce recei vi ng that apprai sa 1, and I have ki ndl y
cane to the conclusion that nust people \I\OUld think
that the val ue of the 1 easeho 1 d to 2048 \I\OU 1 d be
VIOrth nure than that.
[)) I think it is VIOrth tVIO million cbllars, I cb
not thi nk that -- that by any stretch of the
i rragi nati on is w,at the 1 easeho 1 d interest is VIOrth.
Ranarber, temri nati on of the 1 ease, the
potenti a 1 of the appoi ntment of a receiver, the
i nsti tuti on of ani nent cbnai n proceedi ngs to try and
to evidence to the court the necessity of cbing
sanethi ng for the protecti on of thi s rrajor of the
dty.
I think it's the largest single parcel of land
0J\I1ed by the d ty of sanford in sani no 1 e county and
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City Commission, Sanford, FloridExecutive Session
March 12, 2007
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is looked upon by the appraiser and others as a j&.e1
of a parcel of property.
t\OJIJ, di d he ever give consi derati on to its
potential for deve10pnent purpose, anS\\er, no. was
there an idea of condani ni uns, any idea of any
inprovanents, no. The only instruction the city
manager gave hi m is, it I S our g:> 1 f course, \\e V\6rlt to
keep it as a g:> 1 f course and \\e \\ant you to tell us
vJ1at it I s \I\Orth.
\/\Ie are ready to anS\\er your questions, and V\e
V\6rlt the ci ty rranager to understand \\hat hi s
i nstructi ons are fran thi s day forvard.
lHE ML\){R: Thank you, Mr. MCIntosh.
\/\Ie 11, I guess \\e have a deci si on to rrake here,
and obvi ous 1 y, you knoN -- I mean, I I ve been Mayor
for t\I\O years, but I knoN that thi s has been an
ong:>i ng issue for many, many years. I thi nk --
I\IR. \,\(X])RUFF: It' s been g:>ing on for six years.
lHE ML\){R: Yeah. I mean, Wlen Larry Dale vas
the mayor, thi s -- you knoN, there \\ere sare pursui t
of thi s and \fIA1y it stopped, I don I t knoN, maybe
Mr. MCIntosh could en 1 i ghten us on that, but I don It
knoN that it's really relevant at this point.
SO I guess \\e need to rea 11 y rrake a deci si on.
Q,Jite frankly it' s deplorable. I mean, 1111 be
SEMIf\OLE RE~ The.
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MINUTES
42R
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
J':'1:p.elltivp. Sp.~~ion
Mareh 121~!QOL
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honest wi th you, my 1 ast year -- my ft rst year as
lVIayor, you I<rnv, I had a fundrai ser there, I refused
to have it there the next year, I ~ emarrassed
that, you I<rnv, thi s is the qual i ty of sanethi ng that
the ci ty OAflS that \\e I re goi ng to be havi ng
fundrai si ng events.
SO -- but once agai n, I cbn It vant to spend
nmey and \\e I re chasi ng our tai 1 s so to speak.
un, you I<rnv, if \\e I re goi ng to do sanethi ng, \\e
need to carry it out and carp 1 ete it unti 1 the end.
SO I guess \\e need to detenrri ne --
rvtS. WILL:rPMS: I vant to talk about NLJTber 3,
reso 1 uti on of necessi ty .
IVR. M:INTOSH: I \'\OU 1 d anti ci pate that that
1 i ti gati on probably \'\OU 1 d run as you -- 1 et me
explain that. .
under chapter 73 and 74, the condemee, that is
saninole club, has a free ride with reference to the
fallONi ng thi ngs, thei r apprai sa 1, thei r aeri a 1
photographs, thei r on-ground photographs, thei r
attorney fees, thei r court cost, the expressed annunt
it \'\OU 1 d take us to take the deposi ti ons and all of
the 1 i ti gation costs are at the hands of the d ty if
\\e exerci se our poAer of ani nent cbnai n.
I could see us wi thout any hesi tancy spendi ng
SEMINX...E REFOUThG INC.
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida Exe~ut"Te Senioll
Marth 12,2007
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probably S011eM1ere in the area of fi fty to seventy
thousand cb 11 ars in conjuncti on wi th that 1 i ti gati on.
IVR. WXDRUFF: I-tNv is that di fferent than
cancel i ng the 1 ease?
IVR. rvaN1OSH: \/\Ie 11, I -- we have to be
convinced that we can exercise our poAer of aninent
cbnai n by necessi ty, and that we have to convi nce the
court that a necessity exists with reference to the
exerci se of the poAer of ani nent cbnai n.
I'm sure they're 9)ing to be rnerDers of the
canni ssion Wn have questions wi th reference to the
que -- the fact, is there really a necessity to
expand that ki net of nooey and we 1 i ti gate thi smatter
in the form of a condamati on sui t.
There are _ U\o ki nets, dlapter 73 is the s 1 ON
operati on. And you cb not deposi t any rroney in the
register of the court, you proceed to a jury, the
jury determines the value of the leasehold interest,
we pay for it and we have OOught the leasehold
interest.
But Mr. Yeh 1 has i neti cated to us in the i nteri m
to i magi ne VIilat \I\OU 1 d happen to the 9)1 f course.
THE !\1A.'((R: Yeah, that's the scary part.
IVR. rvGNmSH: If you thi nk it's bad noN, thi nk
of \Ahat it \I\OU 1 d be at that ti me if they are on the
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Excc..t" e Session
Miin:l. 12;'2OO'T
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defensive.
THE M6.'v'tR: Ri ght .
~. IV(INTOSH: SO it \i\OU 1 d be necessary for us
to exerci se dlapter 74 1 i ti gati on. And Mr. veh 1 has
told us to be very sure of w-at \\e I re tal ki ng about
in that regard and do a great deal of research,
detenni ni ng if \\e can in fact condam the 1 easeho 1 d
interest, if that I S the way that you desi re to go.
And \\e \i\OU 1 d get back wi th you and convi nee you
that that \i\OU 1 d be successful, prob 1 anati c or \^A1ether
it \i\OUld be a failure.
THE M6.'v'tR: A tennination of the lease.
~. \rOIRUFF: And hoN cbes that carpare to
tenni nati ng the 1 ease?
~. IVCINTOSH: Tenni nate, you rrmn fran the
standpoint of expense or the standpoint of tillE?
THE M6.'v'tR: Both .
MS. WILL.IAV6 : Both .
~. IV(INTOSH: All right. TillE, it V\OUld be --
~. \rOIRUFF: And success.
~. IVCINTOSH: TillE, it \i\OUld be quicker to
exerci se the po.r..er of ani nent danai n. Expense V\OU 1 d
probably be rmre expensi ve to have to be responsi b 1 e
for all of the expenses in conjuncti on wi th the
exerci se of the po.r..er of ani nent danai n.
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida EX8~Utiv@ ~@SSi9R
Mardi 11, 2007
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But in the busi ness of tenni nati ng the 1 ease, if
that is the i nstructi on that you gi ve us, VI.e need to
very aggressi vel y pursue tenni nati ng the 1 ease and
not bet <bAn the pathNay as V\.e have clone before , feel
sorry for the individuals V\ho are the lessees and
then be under \^J1at IS c 1 assi fi ed as JX> 1 i ti ca 1 pressure
and end up giving in the litigation.
That is \^J1at has happened in the past.
IVIS. WILLI.M1S: Wlat oou 1 d it cost for the
tennination of the lease?
~.~: I oould anticipate that, as live
told you, that it oou 1 d probably take 18 rmnths in
the trial court and the appellate court and the
litigation expenses oould probably be one hundred
thousand dollars.
IVIS. WILLI.M1S: \IIA1ich one do you think oould be
rrore successful, one or three?
~. CARFIN<EL: I oou 1 d thi nk, as VI.e stand
before you today, NlJ1iJer 1, the tenni nati on route
is -- is an alternative -- all of the alternatives
are of equal si gni fi cance or I oou 1 d not have
menti oned then.
l11ey are all kind of on the serre level, itls
just a rratter of bei ng properly prepared and
proceedi ng before the court wi thout hesi tancy .
S~7)RE~ The.
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MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Exectltn t SessioD
f'JR. \,\(X])RUFF : well, I don I t understand InN
the --
ll-IE ~Y(R: A carbination --
f'JR. \,\(X])RUFF: -- stuff VIOrks.
THE ~Y(R: -- carbination of proceeding with
temri nati on --
f'JR.~: Receivership. If V\e instituted,
. si r, a -- an acti on to temri nate the 1 ease, V\e VI.OU 1 d
also request that a recei ver be appoi nted.
MS. WILLIAMS: okay.
f'JR. \,\(X])RUFF: okay. But havi ng a recei ver is
not a thi rd option?
f'JR. ~: r-.t), a receiver is --
f'JR. \\al:RUFF: okay. A receiver is probably
~ing to be in jointly with either option?
f'JR.~: A receiver is ~ing to be --
receiver VI.OUld be a part of option tUrber 1, if V\e
could convince the court that a receiver needs to be
appointed right noN and operate the course and nanage
the course, so as to not get ourselves in a JX>sition
of seeing it rrnre deteriorated in the future than it
,
lS 11ON.
f'JR. \MlDRUFF: okay. SO V\e rea 11 y have "00
, 'gh ?
optlons. Rl t.
ll-IE ~Y(R: Temrination--
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EOOSI444IDW
MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida Exe~..tive ~egSi9R
Mardi 11, 1007
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tvR. \\OIRUFF: Temri nation or --
MS. WILlIAlVIS: Nl.rtiJer 3.
lHE MAtYCR: -- or the resolution of necessity.
I mean, I don't thi nk there's any questi on that
there has to be a recei vershi pin thi s .
tvR. \\OIRUFF: Ri ght .
lHE MAt'((R: Because -- they will allON it to
deteri orate -- I mean, it's bad enough as it is.
tvR. \\OIRUFF: Yeah.
lHE MAtYCR: But beyond the value that this --
you knON.
tvR. \\OIRUFF: YOU knON, it doesn't take long
for it to --
tvR. tvQ~: It cost nooey to alp loy a
recei ver though --
lHE MAt'((R: Right.
tvR. tvQ~: -- V\e've learned that. of course
the recei ver, V\e \\OU 1 d thi nk the team that has been
suggested to us by Mr. si nger, our experts on the
subject, and V\e' ve care in and di d a lot of thi ngs
that need to be done at the course frun the
standpoint of production of gross incare, vJ1ich is
not bei ng done out there nON.
And of those of you vJ10 play, sare days you play
and it costs you $20, sare days it costs you $35, you
SEMIf\OLE RE~ INC.
(407) 831-0'IW
MINUTES
42X
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
li:xe~lItive Selilii9R
Martll12, 200+-
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do not receive a recei pt and tlnse are the matters
that V\e I re interested in.
MEnDers of our team asked about an audit,
speci fi call y the fi nance di rector, he \\anted to kroN
if V\e ~ld be in a better position with the court if
V\e had an audi t, of course V\e ~ 1 d.
\ttA1y, because i t ~ 1 d shaN all of the mi sgivi ngs
of the hancIl i ng of funds duri ng recent days, as far
as 5ani no 1 e cl ub is concerned, but that cost rroney.
I asked him, haN much ~ 1 d it cost for an
audi t, he sai d i t ~ 1 d cost sarevJ1ere in the zone of
ten to fourteen thousand doll ars to carp 1 ete 1 y audi t
the books.
And you can I t just get in Greene & Dycus to do
an audit with reference to a golf course, you have to
have sareone that has expertise in the subject matter
of haN golf courses are operated and haN they produce
incane.
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THE Mt\YCR: Mr. Bridges, youlve been awfully
silent.
IVR. BRIOO:S: I was appoi nted by lVayor Betty
smi th to the lVayfai r camri ttee back in the 1 ate I 80s
or early I 90s . \.\Ie had a fav nEeti ngs, V\e made sane
recarnB1dati ons and it stopped.
live played golf at that club I10N for 35 years.
SEMIf\DLE RER:Rrn\G IN(.
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City Commission, Sanford, Florida Exec1Itn e Session
MAl ch 12, 2887
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I have sued that club three ti mes, and was successful
in all three litigations.
But I am here to tell you that the defenses of
estoppel and wai ver and 1 ashes oou 1 d be JD.Jnded into
us. The ci ty gets aggravated and it rears up at the
club and then it dies.
IVR. WXDRUFF: uh-huh.
IVR. BRIIXiES: If VI.e exer -- in my hLJrtJle
opi ni on, if \^.e \^.ent qrri on 2, the ani nent cbnai n
proceedings, VI.e oould have to convince the court of a
shoNi ng of necessi ty .
I don' t bel i eve that VI.e could shaN that
necessi ty, and if I \^.ere defendi ng thi s sui t, I oou 1 d
say it was nothi ng nore than a gui se to tenni nate the
1 ease.
IVR. WXDRUFF: uh-huh.
IVR. BRIIXiES: SO the only real opti on \^.e have,
in my hLJrtJle opinion, is qrrion 1.
f\i)N, the Daniels clan, and it can -- that has
been thei r 1 i vel i hood, thei r JDrk barrel for t\\enty
plus years.
\\hen the club was sol d to the Dani e 1 s group, my
partner and I, Matt cl eve 1 and, handl ed the sales.
And the re 1 ati onshi p wi th the club and the ci ty \^.ent
cIoM1hi 11 fran that day forvard.
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(407) 831-6400
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MINUTES
42Z
City Commission, Sanford, Plorida
Exerutive SeiiioD
Marth 12, 2()(U..
E0051444IDW
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Ken and I \\ere rani n; sci ng earl; er, ~yfa; r used
to be the sac; a 1 hub --
lHE ~){R: dl, absolutely.
rv5 . WILLJ.A1v1S: yeah .
~. \l\.CXDRUFF: dl, yeah.
~. BRlIXE): --; nto th; s tOM'l --
lHE ~){R: wedel; ng recepti ons, and anyl:xxjy \IIA1o
was anyl:xxjy had the; r part; es there.
~. BRlIXE): There's a lot of h; story, there's
a lot of chann.
THE ~){R: R;ght.
~. BRTIXiES: I can tell you as a golfer, that's
a course you never get t; red of p 1 ayi ng. I have
tal ked to sare of my go 1 fi ng budd; es that have played
there regularly, Tan Ball, Rabb; e Robertson, my son,
says the course shape has ;rrproved, even with all the
beati ng ; t takeS and 1 ack of ma; ntenance, ; t' s
amaz; ng the course ; s not ; n horri b 1 e shape.
The clubhouse fac; 1; t; es, the restroans,
et cetera, are dep 1 orab 1 e. I mean, I don't knoN hoN
rrany e-rra; 1 s you've gotten, but I've gotten a ton,
because I'm I<r1c:Mn to be a golfer, and ; t ; s
deplorable.
I oou 1 d love to ; nstruct Mr. McIntosh and h; s
team to fi 1 e sui t ton; ght, but I'm here to tell you
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(407) 831-0'IU)
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42A1
City Commission, Sanford, Florid€xec"tive Session
Mar..h 12,2007
EOOSl4441DW
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it's a defensible suit in my opinion.
~. WXDRUFF: \\hich l:Jecares rrore defensible
next ti rre if V\e don't do sanethi ng thi s tirre.
~. BRIIXiES: Ri ght.
lHE MAtYCR: SO, I rrean -- V\ell, so you're -- let
rre back up a little bit.
~. rvaNTOSH: He'S telling you it's not gling
to be a --
lHE MAtYCR: An easy fi ght.
~. rvaNTOSH : Exactly.
lHE MAtYCR: And I understand that.
~. WXDRUFF: \\hi ch is w,y the ci ty has backed
doM1 before.
lHE MAtYCR: That's w,y they backed doM1 before.
~. BRIIXiES: Ri ght. SO. -- so -- the opti ons I
thi nk ~ have "--
lHE MAtYCR: But--
~. 8RIIXiES: -- V\e ei ther try to enter into a
rrediated agreeJB1t with than and say this is it, you
then knock out thei r 1 ashes , estoppel and \l\Biver
defenses fran that day forvard.
lHE MAtY(R: But hoN long are V\e tal ki ng aI:x:>ut
ti rre-wi se?
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MS. WILLI.Arv1S: I thought V\e'd done that before.
Haven't V\e done that?
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(407) 831-6400
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MINUTES
4281
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
E-ncntive Se5iiOD
Mardi 12, 200+-
EOOSl4441DW
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~. M:IN1OSH: we' ve never offered then
anythi ng, please, ma' am, fran the standpoi nt of
buyi ng than out.
MS. WILLPlv1S: dl, no.
~. 1VCIN1OSH: Mr. veh 1 is the fi rst one that
ever yelled about the possibility of buying then out,
\\hat can VIe cb to get ri d of than, and that' s V\hy VIe
canE up wi th an apprai sa 1 .
lHE MA.'Y'tR: $34O,(XX) is V\hat the appraisal was?
~. BRJ:OO:S: And 1 et rre tell you ri ght 11OJV,
$340, (XX) --
lHE MA.Yffi: dl, they're not ~ing to --
~. BRlIXB: $34O,(XX) for that leasehold
interest, I can make six phone calls and have that
sun laid on this table in five minutes.
lHE MA.'Y'tR: <i1 , sure.
~. WXDRUFF: They've been offered that
already, haven' t they?
lHE MA.Yffi: Ves .
rvR. BRJ:OO:S: There has been sare negotiations,
I' ve heard through co 11 oqui un roan-type tal k, and at
the right price I knoN that that course could be
bought.
But \^l1at I wanted to fi ni sh say; ng is, VIe ei ther
enter into sarething that VIe can sink our teeth into
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SEMIt\OLE RE~ The.
e 407) 831-oqw
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City Commission, Sanford, Florid:F.xecutive Session
March 12. 2007
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and get away fran these wai vers , estoppel, 1 ashes
defenses or ~ authori ze hi m to fi 1 e sui t, and I can
tell you fran havi ng 1 i ti gated wi th the Dani e 1 s
myself, be prepared to spend the rroney, be prepared
to have a year or ei ghteen nooths of it.
And can ~ prevai 1, of course ~ can prevai 1 .
can ~ lose, you I re dam ri ght \\e can lose too.
ll-IE MA.'vtR: of course, ~ cool d .
~. BRIOCiES: \,\Ie could lose because there has
been, of my 0J\Kl personal knoJv 1 edge, tv\enty years of
fl are-up, si t dOJIKl, fl are-up, si t dOJIKl.
we do not have, in my hurb 1 e opi ni on, a great
track record of enforcerent. And once agai n, I I m not
throNi ng stones an}'\^J1ere, but that I s the hi story that
~Ive inherited.
SO ~ either --
ll-IE MA.Ym: Ri ght.
~. BRIOCiES: -- you knoJv, i f ~ sued and -- if
they defended and they prevailed, the only thing that
I knoN that it \\OU 1 d do, help rre Mr. McIntosh,
prevai 1 i ng party theory on attorney I s fees and costs.
~. IV(INTQSH: Yes, si r.
~. BRIOCiES: SO--
~. IV(INTQSH: \,\Ie don I t have a 57107, ~ don It
have a prob 1 en there.
SEMIt\OLE RE~ Ir\C.
(407) 831-oqw
MINUTES
4201
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Exe<tut"'e SelllliQg
Mardi 12, 2~
E00514441DW
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I\R. BRJIXiES: okay. 57107 says that if you
bri ng a frivol aus 1 awsui t and you lose --
ll-IE Mt\)'{R: \\Ie \OJld be responsible for the
other parti es --
I\R. BRJIXiES: -- the other si de has to pay your
attorney's fees and costs.
ll-IE Mt\)'{R: Ri ght.
I\R. BRJIXiES: But the prevai 1 i ng party theory
is, and it's probably in the lease, that if VIe sued
then and lost, they'd nai 1 us for thei r attorney's
fees.
I\R. \AOOJRUFF: \/\hat is that?
I\R.~: Relates to 57105.
I\R. BRJIXiES: Ri ght. If VIe prevai 1 eel , VIe caul d
tax attorney's fees and costs against then.
lin, if it's just a question -- and the Mayor is
ri ght, I've had parti es out there, I've g:>t fond
rrBTDri es of parti es and functi ons and banquets, and
the place is a beautiful facility w,en it's properly
taken care of, but it is -- every doll ar has been
wrung out of that thi ng.
I\R. WXDRUFF: wrung out, it's just been taken
out of the cash reg; ster .
lHE Mt\)'{R: There's no pun intended. I don't
th; nk he ; ntended a pun \/\hen he sa; d wrung.
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(407) 831-0'IU)
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42E1
City Commission, Sanford, FloridExecutive Session
March 12, 2007
E00514441DW
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1 I\IR. BRIJ:X.E) : But I 00n' t thi nk as far as just
,..""" 2 -- Mr. McIntosh's i nstructi ons, I truly 00n' t see
........ 3 that ~ could ever play on arri nent cblBi n
4 condamati on thoory, because ~ can't shaN a
5 necessity .
6 I\IR. vaDRUFF: And that's \'IA1at I'm havi ng
7 trouble figuring out, haN ~ shaN a necessity to take
8 sarEthi ng.
9 I\IR. BRIJ:X.E) : \Nell, it's an option that he had
10 to present to us, but I OOn't think it's a viable
11 opti on.
12 If ~'re gJing to litigate, the litigation \OJld
- 13 have to focus on termination and violation of the
.... 14 lease clauses, and ~'ll just have to v..eather the
15 stonn on 1 ashes, vai ver and estoppel.
16 NoJv, I'm not suggesti ng that ~ necessari 1 y
17 OOn't pursue it, I'm just saying -- I mean, I OOn't
18 want to arbarrass Mr. McIntosh, because he's one of
19 the many 1 awyers in thi s toM1 that helped me to
20 becarE a young 1 awyer and help me fi nd \M1ere the
21 courthouse vas, because I didn't even knoN Vlhere the
22 darm place vas Vlhen I started pratti ci ng 1 aN.
23 And he and I have had many, many cases over the
,... 24 years, and I have the i nfi ni te respect for hi s 1 ega 1
.... 25 abi 1 i ty, but \OJ 1 d I bet nmey that he \OJ 1 d attua 11 y
SEMIf\OLE RE~ INC.
(407) 831-6400
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42F1
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MINUTES
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Executive Session
March 12, 20~
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win this lawsuit, no, si r.
lHE M<<\'Vt:R: ~. SOrry, Ken.
IVR. BRlIXB: But if you file -- if you file the
lawsuit -- if ~ file --
IVR. rvcINroSH: You rmde a note of that, ri ght? .
Thank you. SO he could -- so he could...
IVR. BRTIXiES: If ~ fi 1 ed the 1 awsui t, \1\e' ve g>t
to --
IVR. \\CXIRlJFF: I bel i eve in Mr. IVt:Intosh.
lHE M<<\'Vt:R: I believe in him.
IVR. BRlIXB: -- \^.e' ve g>t to be prepared to
spend the nooey, and audi t -- 1 et me tell you
sOOEthi ng about an audi t.
\\hen you audi t cookbooks, you knoN, are ~ doi ng
anythi ng \\Ort:tW1i 1 e.
lHE M<<\'Vt:R: Yeah.
IVR. BRlIXB: 1he separate corporati on that
he 1 ds the 1 eases on the g> 1 f carts, InN do you thi nk
our rent nooey is derived fran Mayfair, it's off
gross revenues.
Jesus christ, the country club rents the g>lf
carts fran a separate corporati on, that's an expense
i tan, cuts cbM1 thei r gross revenues, hence thei r
percentage that they nust rani t to the d ty, 'ION,
that one took a long time to figure out.
SEMIN:>LE RERRTIf\(] The.
(407) 831-6400
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42G1
City Commission, Sanford, FloridaExeiCutwe SeisiQD
Mar,.h 1') '007
E00514441DW
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I've seen retDrts Vlhere they expensed out
ferti 1 i zer --
I\R. \IIlXDRUFF: oon 't you have to pay for it if
they expense it?
I\R. BRIIXiES: yeah .
I\R. M:INTOSH: 5arE of the thi ngs that I
evi dence there are a reso 1 uti on of necessi ty of the
acti ons that are conducted out there.
we have repJrts fran the DepartrrBlt of I-btel and
Restaurants that you WJU 1 d not bel i eve, but they're
trying to do sanething about that rather then keeping
thei r rreat in refri gerators at 71 degrees, they're
I10N tryi ng to do it in accordance wi th the di ctates
of the statute.
we have -- vve have had parti es out there that
have ended up,. if you please, in rrurder
investigations.
THE I'vl6tYCR: Ri ght .
I\R. BRIIXiES: Ri ght.
I\R. M:INTOSH: we have problens with reference
to the persons involved in picking up the trash and
\'\hat' 5 in the trash, and all of these ki nd of thi ngs
are matters that vve consi dered.
But I think you have a ~ analysis, if vve' re
goi ng to go thi s ti me, vve need to go and vve do not
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SEI\m{)lE RE~ INC.
(407) 831-oqw
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MINUTES
42H1
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
Exec:utVl'e SeliliioA
Mardi 12, 200+-
E00514441DW
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need to be overcane by the medi a, overcane by
jX>litics.
lHE !\t\A.){R: Pressure.
I\IR. BRIIXiES: Exactly.
I\IR. rvaNTOSH: Mr. veh 1 has sai d, \IIA1y hasn't
sanethi ng been done about Mayfai r, and we have just
sai d it has had a pi cture of up and cb.n and it's on
a roll er coaster and once we get on sanethi ng thi s
tirre we need to g:> wi th it.
I\IR. BRIIXiES: And sanethi ng else that could
happen, thei r i ni ti a 1 jX>si ti on, they're g:>i ng to
defend a counter-attack, any way they can.
f\nV, at sane jX>i nt inti rre --
I\IR. \ra.DRUFF: Uh-huh.
I\IR. BRIIXiES: -- it might open the jX>ssibility
of, \I\e 11, \IIA1y cb1' t you just g:> ahead and sell thi s
club and walk out of thi s gracefu 11 y . There's SenE
interest 1 oca 11 y, wi th sane local busi nesSllBl --
THE !\t\A.){R: Ri ght. \,\Ie all krnv that.
I\IR. BRIIXiES: -- everybody knoNs that. Because
that Dani e 1 s clan is not so ~ 1 thy that they can
spend the nnney that the ci ty can.
Then agai n, sane people do set battles wi th ci ty
Hall and wi n and out-l i ti gate than because of the 1 aN
and the facts.
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SEMIf\O...E RE~ INC.
(407) 831-0'IU)
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MINUTES
4211
City Commission, Sanford, Florida F:xe~lItive Session
March 12.2007
E00514441DW
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\/\Ie do not have a perfect set of facts for the
lawsuit. Then again, I'm in my 34th, 35th year 11O/J,
I don't thi nk I I ve ever fi 1 ed a 1 awsui t w,ere I had
perfect facts. I mean, that just doesn't happen.
can V\.e prevai 1 u 1 ti mate 1 y, I hate to put it in
percentages, I'd say V\e at 1 east have a 50/50 if not
better, because the hi story of that club is
deplorable.
rv1S. WILLINvtS: Fi rst I vvant to ask , all of the
vi 01 ati ons based on my rem 11 ecti on , all the
fl are-ups throogh thi s ti rtE , all of the vi 01 ati ons
that they are gui 1 ty of V\OU 1 d not justi fy, you krnv,
our chances --
rvR. BRIIXiES: It V\OUld be persuasive, but w,ere
V\.e made a mi stake --
TI-lE 1V'A'fffi: \/\Ie di dn 't enforce it.
rvR. tlCINfOSH: They have currently --
.
rvR. BRIIXiES: -- lS V\e --
THE 1V'A'fffi: They--
rvR. tlCINfOSH: They made current fi re
inspections. They made current hotel and restaurant
i nspecti ons .
They've had current all types of operational
expenses i nspecti ons, they've tri ed desperately to
put nnre i tans in the pro-shop, because they krnv
SEI"1II\DLE RE~ ThC.
(407) 831-oqw
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421J 1
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Executive Session March 12, 2007
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
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that the dogs are bi ti ng close behi nd thei r heel s,
that I S the only reason that they I ve cb1e it.
MS. WILlIAfv1S: SO \IIA1y don I t ~ just -- it seens
to rre that one is the best opti on .
rvR. BRIIXiES: Ole is the only opti on.
lHE fv\A.)'{R: \\Ie 11, ~ need to make thi s
detemri nati on and ~ need to sti ck wi th it.
MS. WILlIAfv1S: And sti ck wi th it, near --
lHE fv\A.)'{R: \\Ie need to tell sherman and
Mr. McIntosh thi s is haN ~ want you to proceed.
But ~ need to cane to a decision as to -- I
mean, you guys knoN rre, I 1m tenad ous . I mean, I III
dig my heels in and fight the fight.
rvR. KIRBY: Yes.
rvR. BR:ilXiES: Have you been out there 1 ate 1 y ,
Mi ke?
rvR. KIRBY: Yes.
rvR. BRIIXiES: W1at I S the clubhouse and
fadlities like?
rvR. KIRBY: l11e fadlities, you hit the nail on
the head, 1 i tt 1 e to nothi ng has been done aOOut it.
l11ey I ve done enough that they VIOU 1 dn I t have the
heal th department breathi ng cbM1 thei r neck on, you
I<rov, tffil)eratures and things like that.
l11e p 1 ayi ng surface is not gJOd, but it I S not
S~7)RE~ N:.
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42K1
Executive Session March 12, 2007
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
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horrible. I nmn, it's still in armzingly gxJd
shape.
I thi nk one of the bi ggest -- everythi ng that
Mr. McIntosh sai d is exactly ri ght. The one thi ng
that I thi nk the defense for than is, that place is
packed on the V\eekends, I nmn, they I re goi ng to
rrarch a lot of people in and go, you knoN, the Ci ty
is bei ng heavy handed.
And, you knoN, I just want to prepare people for
that, that I s goi ng to be out there. I hear the Satre
things you all do, you knoN, hav bad shape it's in.
There I s a lot of people out there that --
lHE MA.Ym: live been there, it's in horrible
shape.
~. KIRBY: The faci 1 i ti es are absolutely
horrible.
~. JCNES: Wlat are they chargi ng on the
V\eekend to play there?
~. BR:ITXE;: un, 28 plus tax.
~. ]O'JES: okay. \\Ie 11, there IS \I\A1y they I re
booked .
lHE MA.Ym: That I s w,y they I re packed.
~. BRIIXiES: d1, yeah. CCJrE out to Heathrav --
~. ]O'JES: Thatls right, you can go an~re
else.
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SEMII\OLE RE~ If\C.
(407) 831-oqw
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42L1
Executive Session March 12, 2007
City Commission, Sanford, Florida
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I\IR. BRTI:X;ES: I rrean, ~ guest -- for a guest of
mine at Heathrav on a saturday is seventy bucks plus
tax, if I bring a guest.
SO, yeah, it -- it's just like any I11Jnidpal
course, it's g>ing to get played fran the average guy
V\ho, you knoN, ei ther chases not to or doesn' t feel
1 i ke he or she can afford a pri vate fad 1 i ty .
I\IR. ]Q\JES: Ri ght .
I\IR. rv[]NTOSH: oubsdread has just as I11Jch play
as Mayfai r does, ~ are convi need of that fran our
team analysis, and it is at a higher rate.
-me reason that it is, is because they have
shaPed it up, but ranaIDer in shapi ng it up, the d ty
of Orlando spent a lot of nnney shapi ng up oubsdread,
they spent three mi 11 i on doll ars.
lHE MA.Y<R: t\O, I just saw thi s ~kend on the
nervs that they're c 1 osi ng it so they can do ei ght
mi 11 i on doll ars VIOrth of renovati ons .
I\IR. KIRBY: But tVIO years ag>, they PUt three
million dollars in it.
ll-IE MA.Y<R: Ri ght . And I10JV they just closed it
or they're closing it --
I\IR. BRTI:X;ES: Yeah, it's closed for ei g,t nooths
for renovati ons.
lHE MA.Y<R: -- to do eight million dollars VIOrth
SEMIt\OLE REPCRTIJ\G II'X:.
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Executive Session March 12, 2007
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of renovations.
rvR. rvGNTOSH: And V\e have fran Mr. veh 1, an
idea in that regard, in that regard \OJ 1 d -- in the
event that V\e are successful, he has a plan to have
nine holes open and nine holes closed, and nine holes
fi ni shed and then open the other ni ne holes.
And all of that ~ thought by Mr. si nger, the
apprai ser, W10 is an expert in g> 1 f courses, to be
sarethi ng that v\ou 1 d keep the gxx:j old boys of
sanford happy, at 1 east they could play the ni ne
holes.
THE MA.'vtR: okay. G..Iys, \I\e need to gi ve hi m
di recti on and a deci si on. I mean, you krnv, V\e can
di scuss W'lat dep 1 orab 1 e condi ti on it IS in fran noN
until forever.
rvR. ]()\JES: \/\Ie 11, I mean, if -- if the one
opti on is just a gui se to tenni nate the 1 ease, 1 et IS
just g> ahead and tenninate the lease.
MS. WILLI.Alv1S : well, 1 et IS --
rvR. BR:IIXiES : well, you \OJ 1 d -- they \OJ 1 d g>
hand in hand.
ll-IE MA.'vtR: They have to.
rvR. BR:IIXiES: Because you \OJ 1 d rove to appoi nt
a receiver to collect the rents and profits and pay
the bi 11 s, because if a recei ver is not appoi nted --
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and a receiver costs rrmey.
1'vR. fvON1OSH: Yes .
1'vR. \\ODRUFF: But it can I t be v..orse than vA1at
vve I re doi ng 11OJV.
ll-tE ~Y(R: But it can I t be the loss of i nCarE
that vve I re sufferi ng 11OJV.
1'vR. BRIIXiES: d1, yeah. d1, yeah .
"THE ~YCR: Because vvelve probably paid --
1'vR. ](J.JES: There I s no sense of bei ng accused of
1 ega 1 wrang 1 i ng and upsetti ng the wrong juror. You
might as vvell call it Wlat it is, and --
1'vR. BRIIXiES : well, my input, and I -- you knoN,
I guess -- I'm a g>lfer, my input is, if vve nove
forvard, then vve have to stay the course and vve rove
forvard on it, period.
1'vR. \\ODRUFF: Wlat I vas g>i ng to say, thi s is
not g>i ng to be pretty.
1'vR. BRIIXiES : ~.
ll-tE ~Y(R: It vasn I t pretty in the past.
1'vR. \\ODRUFF: \IIA1en you I re havi ng to deal wi th
her on very 1 i mi ted thi ngs in the past, it I S not
g>i ng to be pretty and vve have to sti ck wi th it.
ll-tE ~Y(R: RanenDer, Larry Dale --
1'vR. \\ODRUFF: sti ck wi th it.
1HE ~Y(R: -- vas resJDlsible for his death.
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I\IR. rvo:NTOSH: we hear that every time VIe talk
to her.
I\IR. KIRBY: Ri ght .
lHE M<<\'VtR: Larry Dale was responsible for his
death .
I\IR. \rlXDRUFF: And she's not g>i ng to gi ve up
because of that.
lHE M<<\'VtR: Ri ght.
I\IR. \rlXDRUFF: she doesn't care Vlhether she
makes nnney off of it, I don't thi nk. she--
I\I1S . WILLIAlVtS: SO 1 et --
lHE M<<\'VtR: I\tt)ve forward. Tennination of lease,
receivership.
~. rvGNTOSH: COt it.
lHE M<<\'VtR: They're not g>i ng to sell it to us
for 340,000, so.
I\IR. tvONTOSH: YOU desi re for us to try to
camuni cate wi th than at the onset in pre-sui t
i nvesti gati on and detenni ne if there's any
possi bi 1 i ty or just rove forward?
lHE M<<\'VtR: well, I ~ld say, you knoN, explore
the possibility.
~. BRTIXiES: I ~ 1 d give than a standard --
lHE M<<\'VtR: Yeah.
I\IR. BRTIXiES: -- of vJ1at VIe'll do or VIe' re g>i ng
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1 to fi 1 e sui t and gi ve then -- you knoN, the standard
2 1l\O, three \\eek reslDlse ti rre.
3 ~. M:IN1OSH: Thank you, s; r.
4 ~. ~UFF: Encourage then to sell the 1 ease
5 to sanebody else.
6 THE M!\){R: Yeah, even sell ;t to --
7 ~. BRTIXiES: \\Ie 11, there I s been offers put out
8 there.
9 THE M!\){R: -- W10ever wants to buy it.
10 ~. ~UFF: And they should take then on
11 the; r offers, yeah.
12 THE M!\){R: Take; t 11ON, because...
13 ~. BRTIXiES: Yeah.
14 THE M!\){R: Okay.
15 ~. M:IN1OSH: Thank you. we knoN \\hat to do.
16 \\Ie close the rreeting, thank you for you help.
17 THE M!\){R: Thank you.
18 (ThereulDl, the proceed; ngs V'vere concluded at 6: 13 p. m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE
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3 STATE OF FL.(]U[)A.
CIlNTY OF SEMIf\OLE
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5
6 I, LISA. M. TROJBL Y, COUrt Reporter, certi fy
7 that I \'\as authorized to and did stenographically report
8 the foreg>i ng proceedi ngs; and that the transcri pt is a
9 true and carp 1 ete record of my stenographi c notes.
10
11 I further certify that I am not a relative,
12 arp1oyee, attomeyor counsel of any of the parties, nor
13 am I a re 1 ati ve or alp 1 oyee of any of the parti es I
14 attomeys or counsel connected wi th the acti on, nor am I
15 fi nanci all y interested in the acti on.
16
17 Dated thi s 28th day of March, 2007.
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