CSB ag & mins & Misc 1990�J
•
•
IN THE MATTER OF THE HEARING OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, CITY OF
SANFORD, FLORIDA PERTAINING TO WILLIAM RICHARDSON.
THIS CAUSE COMING TO BE HEARD PURSUANT TO APPLICATION FOR
HEARING FILED WITH THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD OF THE CITY OF
SANFORD, FLORIDA BY WILLIAM RICHARDSON, AND AFTER DUE NOTICE
BEING GIVEN IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW, RULES AND REGULATIONS
OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD OF SANFORD, FLORIDA, AND A PUBLIC
HEARING HAVING BEEN HELD, AND THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD HEARING
ALL EVIDENCE, AND TESTIMONY AND LAWS PRESENTED IN BEHALF OF
THE PARTIES, AND THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD BEING FULLY ADVISED
IN THE PREMISE, AND AFTER CAREFUL CONSIDERATION AND
DELIBERATION;
IT IS THEREFORE THE JUDGEMENT AND ORDER OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD THAT THE
DISMISSAL ACTION OF WILLIAM RICHARDSON BE OVERRULED AND INSTEAD HE BE PLACED
ON THIRTY (30) DAY SUSPENSION WITHOUT PAY EFFECTIVE MAY 4, 1990 THRU JUNE 2,
1990. AND THAT MR. RICHARDSON BE PLACED ON ONE YEAR PROBATION EFFECTIVE MAY
4, 1990 THRU MAY 3, 1991 FOR VIOLATION OF PERSONNEL RULES AND REGULATIONS
11.7 (A), (6), (8), (13), (15) AND (17). IN ADDITION, IT IS ORDERED THAT
WILLIAM RICHARDSON FILE A WRITTEN APOLOGY TO MR. LLOYD STRINE AND MR. BILL
HORN FOR HIS ACTS OF INSUBORDINATION.
DONE AND ORDERED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
AT 8:40 P.M., ON THE TWENTY- FOURTH DAY OF MAY, A.D. 1990,
CITY COMMISSION CHAMBERS, ROOM #117, CITY HALL, SANFORD,
SEMINOLE COUNTY, FLORIDA.
ATTEST:
JOHN F. DARBY,
WILLIAM MCQUATTERS
GEORGE RUFAS
Ccv
ERNEST'�CA�
THOMAS GREENE
ATTEST (Notary)
REBECCA E. LAYMAN -WISE
CIVIL SERVICE SECRETARY
I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT A TRUE COPY THEREOF HAS THIS / $
DAY OF 2ete� 1990, BEEN FURNISHED TO:
ALL CIVIL SERVICE BOARD MEMBERS
PERSONNEL FILE
CITY MANAGER, FRANK A. FAISON
CITY ATTORNEY
EMPLOYEE
DEPARTMENT /DIVISION
w
EQUAL PROTECTION
CIVIL SERVICE 130>ARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
EMPLOYER - EMPLOYEE Telephone: 407- 322-3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
APPEALS HEARING NOTICE
THURSDAY, MAY 24, 1990, 6:30 P.M.
CITY COMMISSION CHAMBERS, ROOM #117
FOR
• WILLIAM RICHARDSON
U
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL McOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION
MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE ABOVE MEETING,
OR HEARING, HE MAY NEED A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS,
INCLUDING, THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE, WHICH RECORD IS NOT
PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF SANFORD. (FS 286.0105)
EQUAL PROTECTION
CIVIL SERVICE 130ARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
EMPLOYER - EMPLOYEE Telephone: 407- 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line. 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
APPEALS HEARING NOTICE
WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 1990, 6:30 P.M.
CITY COMMISSION CHAMBERS ROOM #117
FOR
•
ROBERT B. RIPLEY
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL McOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
ADVISE TO THE PUBLIC: IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION
MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE ABOVE MEETING,
OR HEARING, HE MAY NEED A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS,
INCLUDING, THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE, WHICH RECORD IS NOT
PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF SANFORD. (FS 286.0105)
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PUBLIC HEARING
IN RE: Appeal of Termination of
R
ROBET RIPLEY, as an Employee of
The City of Sanford, Sanford`
Florida
BEFORE �HE
` CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS
�01 West Fu]ton Street
Sanfcrd, Florida 32771
Tel.: (407) 323-0808 or 644-8840
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INDEX
TRANSCRIPT OF
PROCEEDINGS
Civil
Service hearing
held May 16, 1990
OPENING BY MR.
GRAY
TESTIMONY OF
TIM McCAULEY
Direct
Examination By Mr.
Gray
Cross
Examination by Ms.
Madden
TESTIMONY OF
JOHNNIE BLAKE
Direct
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Cross Examination
by Ms.
Madden
Redirect
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Recross
Examination by Ms.
Madden
Redirect
Examination by Mr.
Gray
TESTIMONY OF
RUDY ENCARNACION
Direct
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Cross Examination
by Ms.
Madden
Recross
Examination by Ms.
Madden
TESTIMONY OF
ROBERT RIPLEY
Direct
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Cross Examination
by Ms.
Madden
Redirect
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Recross
Examination by Ms.
Madden
TESTIMONY OF
CHERYLE BROWN
Direct
Examination by Ms.
Madden
Cross Examination
by Mr.
Gray
Redirect
Examination by Ms.
Madden
Recross
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Recross
Examination by Mr.
Gray
Redirect
Examination by Ms.
Madden
TESTIMONY OF
CARMEN COSTELLO
Direct
Examination by Ms.
Madden
Cross Examination
by Mr.
Gray
Redirect
Examination by Ms.
Madden
TESTIMONY OF
SAM WILLIAMS
Page 2
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�age 3
Direct
Examination by Ms. Madden
161
Cross
Examination by Mr. Gray
164
CLOSING BY
MS. MADDEN
167
CLOSING BY
MR. GRAY
178
CLOSING BY
MS. MADDEN
185
RULING BY THE
BOARD
196
CERTIFICATE
OF REPORTER
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WHEREUPON:
The following proceedings were had:
MR. DARBY: This meeting is called to order at six
thirty-eight, thereabouts.
Is the City ready --
MR. GRAY: Yes, sir, we are.
MR. DARBY: -- to proceed?
Is the attorney for Mr. Ripley ready?
MS. MADDEN: Yes, Your Honor, we are.
MR. DARBY: The City will proceed.
MR. GRAY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll make a
brief opening statement, if I may, and then present
testimony.
MR. DARBY: That will be all right.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman and members of the Civil
Service Board. On March the 6th of this year, Mr.
Ripley, who is the appellant here tonight, an employee
of the City of Sanford Utility Department, Sewer
Division, returned to work with the City of Sanford fit
for light duty only. Mr. Ripley had reported an
injury, I believe, in December of 1989, and had had
some difficulties from that date up to March the 6th
and working.
On March the 14th or thereabouts, Mr. Ripley
advised his supervisor, Mr. Johnnie Blake` as well as
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his immediate superior, Mr. Rudy Encarnacion, that he
was scheduled for surgery on the 28th day of March of
this year, and that he would have blood work-up and
pre-operative procedures on March the 23rd of this
year. Two days later, on March the 16th, Mr. Ripley,
who had been assigned some light duty, reported that he
was unable to accomplish that light duty, that he was
suffering from some nausea or dizziness and, as I
recall, this was as a result of the medication that he
was on, those symptoms were visiting upon him. At that
time a decision was made by his supervisor and the
department head that Mr. Ripley could go home, he would
not be required to work until his pre-operative and
operative procedures had been completed.
The testimony at this point will become a bit
contradictory as it relates to the specific direction
that was given to Mr. Ripley. It will be the City's
position that Mr. Ripley was directed to call in on a
daily basis to keep his supervisor advised of his
status. Other testimony may indicate that he was only
called on to advise the City on a weekly basis of his
progress and status. But there will be no doubt that
the testimony from both sides, I believe, will show
that Mr. Ripley was advised that he was to keep the
City informed of his statutes and of any changes.
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On March the 23rd, the day which was scheduled for
the pre-operative procedures, Mr. Ripley came into the
City offices that morning and picked up his paycheck.
Later that day the Utility Department received a call
from the laboratory who was to do the pre-operative
work, advising that Mr. Ripley had not shown for his
pre-operative work.
Mr. Ripley does not have a telephone, so the City
did not have the ability to attempt to contact him on
that date. There were no further calls that day from
the testing laboratory and the matter was not pursued.
On March the 28th of this year, there was a
further phone call from the operating surgeon, Dr.
Fonsea's office, inquiring as to the whereabouts of Mr.
Ripley, who had not shown for his operation. Again,
the City didn*t have a telephone to call Mr. Ripley,
however on the next day, Superintendent Blake and a
public director . . . Personnel Director McCauley, went
to the home of Mr. Ripley, to inquire as to what was
happening.
When they arrived, they observed Mr. Ripley mowing
his yard. Upon inquiry, Mr. Ripley advised that his
surgery had been cancelled on the 23rd day of March,
but that he was scheduled for a second opinion, and all
of this had been at the direction of his lawyer.
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�age 6
It is the position of the City that Mr. Ripley has
violated the personnel policy as it relates to
absenteeism, the policy that requires that if one is
going to be absent for more than twenty-four hours he
must do so upon an approved explanation and excuse;
that his conduct has been disgraceful; and that he has
been less than candid and honest with the City, his
employer. We will present testimony to that effect.
We will call as our first witness, Mr. Tim
McCauley.
Mr. Chairman, we have set up --
MR. DARBY: Do you want to give an opening remark?
MS. MADDEN: I would reserve my opening remarks
until we present our case, if it is your pleasure.
MR. DARBY: Okay.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, we set up a chair right
over here for witnesses, if that's acceptable?
MR. DARBY: Okay.
Would you swear him in?
TIM McCAULEY
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRAY:
Q Would you state your name, sir.
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page 7
A Timothy McCauley.
Q Mr. McCauley, are you employed by the City of
Sanford?
A Yes.
Q In what position?
A Personnel Director.
Q And how long have you been employed by the City of
Sanford as Personnel Director?
A Two years.
Q Were you Personnel Director during the calendar
years 1989 and up to the present time?
A
Yes.
Q
Are you familiar with
the City's
policy as it
relates
to absenteeism, Mr. McCauley?
A
Yes.
Q
Are you able today to
tell me
what that policy is?
And I notice you're referring
to apparently some
printed
matter. Would you identify
that
printed matter?
A
Yes. One document is
the Personnel
Rules and
Regulations
manual, and the other
one is
the copy of the
Employee
Handbook,,
Q
If you will, please, sir,
from
the Employee
Handbook,
is there a statement of
policy
regarding
absenteeism
which is applicable
to this
case?
A
Yes.
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page S
Q And what is that, sir?
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, may I ask what page?
0 Please give page and item number.
A Page eleven of the Employee Handbook, under
section nineteen.
The applicable part would be the second sentence,
"An absence in excess of twenty-four hours without an
approved explanation shall be considered a reason for
dismissal.
supervisor.
In the Personnel Rules and Regulations document,
MS.
MADDEN: I'm sorry, which
document are you
reading
from at this point? And what
page
did you say?
MR.
McCAULEY: Page eleven.
MS.
MADDEN: Item what number?
MR.
McCAULEY: Section nineteen,
top
of the page.
MS.
MADDEN: Okay.
MR.
McCAULEY: Second sentence.
MS.
MADDEN: Second sentence.
I'm
sorry, I thought you said
second
paragraph.
Go
ahead.
A
The
other applicable part of
that rule
would be
the very
bottom
paragraph which states,
"Automatic
discharge
will be
effected
if employees have been
absent
for one
calendar
week
and fail to report their
absence
to the
supervisor.
In the Personnel Rules and Regulations document,
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logo 9
on page ten, section 6.1A, also refers to absences in excess
of twenty-four hours without approved explanation shall be
considered a reason for dismissal.
On page eleven of that same document, item H,
automatic discharge will be effected if an employee has been
absent for one work week without proper notification to the
supervisor,
Q Are each of those documents to which you are
referring the current policy statement of the City of
Sanford?
A Yes, sir. The Employee Handbook, Revised Edition
is dated August 30th of 1989. The copy of the Rules and
Regulations in effect are dated April 19, 1989.
Q Are you familiar with the personnel records of Mr.
Ripley?
A Yes.
Q Do you
have any
knowledge
as to whether
or not Mr.
Ripley
was provided
a copy
of either
or both of those
documents?
A Yes-
He received
a copy of
the pocket
policy
manual,
according
to my
records, on
October 24th
of 1980.
He was
given a
copy of
the personnel
rules and regulations,
Civil
Service
rules and
regulations,
on July 7th
of 1989.
Q Mr.
McCauley,
is that an accurate
copy
of the
receipt
which
you have
in your file?
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A Yes.
Q Thank you.
MR. GRAY: I'd submit the receipt into the record,
Mr. Chairman.
Q Mr. McCauley, you've indicated that you're
familiar with the personnel records of Mr. Ripley. Are you
familiar with any prior occasions that he has been advised
of the absenteeism policy?
A Yes. On May of 1989, Mr. Ripley received a
written reprimand, and I would just quote what is stated on
there. "If you're going to be absent for more than
twenty-four hours --
MS. MADDEN: Excuse me. I would object. I don't
believe Mr. McCauley is the one who prepared or
involved in handling the matter of this document.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, I would respond that as
you're aware the rules of evidence are not strictly
adhered to in hearings of this nature. Mr. McCauley,
though, is the Personnel Director, he is the custodian
of the personnel records, and I believe would be
qualified to testify.
MR. DARBY: I didn't hear the objection.
MS. MADDEN: My objection is that it's hearsay,
that Mr. McCauley is not the person who prepared this
document, or is he a signature of this document and,
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therefore, the contents of this document would not be
subject to his knowledge.
MR. DARBY: This is a quasi judicial body and I'll
overrule the objection.
A Okay. The document I'm referring to is in his
file, it's dated May 11th, 1989, it's from Superintendent
Blake to Robert Ripley, regarding absence without
permission. If you'd like, I'll read the whole thing for
the record, if you wish me to.
Q No. If I may ask you to, Mr. McCauley, just the
pertinent portion that relates to the policy we're
discussing.
A Quote, if you're going to be absent for more than
twenty-four hours, you need to call in every day and let
your supervisor know when to expect you back. Please do not
let this happen again. If it does, further disciplinary
action will be taken.
Q Mr. McCauley, is this an accurate copy of that
letter which is in the file?
A Yes.
MR. GRAY: I submit the copy of the letter into
evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Q Mr. McCauley, have you had occasion or did you
have occasion in the month of March of this year to visit
the home of Mr. Ripley?
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Page l2
A Yes,
Q What was the reason for that visit?
A That was on I believe the date was March 29th,
after Bobby had not shown for the pre-op.
Q Mr. McCauley, when you say Bobby, you're referring
to Mr. Ripley?
A Mr. Ripley.
Q Thank you.
A Had not shown for either the pre-op surgery or the
scheduled surgery, and we were concerned, we didn't now what
was going on, so we, Superintendent Blake and myself, went
out to Mr. Ripley's home. That was approximately eleven
o'clock a.m.. And when we pulled up, we saw Mr. Ripley
mowing his lawn. There were several other people there, but
I don't know who they were.
Q Did you have any discussions with Mr. Ripley?
A Yes.
Q And what was that discussion, sir?
A Well, to the best of my recollection, we were
trying to find out what had happened, why he didn't show up
for the surgery, ah, that type of thing. And Bobby, Mr.
Ripley, kept referring to that his lawyers had cancelled
these appointments.
When we questioned Mr. Ripley as to why he had not
let anybody know, and I believe his response was simply that
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he had assumed his lawyers were handling that.
i-) Mr. McCauley, were you present on April the 3rd of
this year for the predisciplinary hearing for Mr. Ripley?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall who else was present at that day?
A The Hearing Officer was Chief Tom Hickson, Mr.
Ripley was present, Paul Moore, Johnnie Blake, myself and
Rebecca Lehman,
Q Mr. McCauley, you've had an opportunity to review
the transcription that was prepared after that hearing?
A Yes.
Q Do you find that transcription to be an accurate
representation, as you recall what was said on that date?
A Yes.
Q Have you had an opportunity to compare it to the
tape recording that was made that date?
A Yes.
Q Is it accurate in comparison to the tape?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, Mr. McCauley, you've assisted, I believe, in
the preparation of the disciplinary action record; is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And did you assist in the specifications of those
portions of the personnel policy that were deemed to have
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been violated?
A Yes.
Q And what were those portions of the policy that
were set forth in the note to Mr. Ripley as the violations?
A The violations having to do with Section 6.1A,
11.7A-4, 11.7A-6, 11.7A-8, 11.7A-15, 11.7A-16.
Q Section 6.1A, is that the section you previously
read regarding absentee policy for more than twenty-four
hours?
A Yes.
Q What is the policy that's set forth in 11.7A-4?
A The employee has willfully violated any lawful
official regulation, order or policy, or failed to obey any
proper direction made and given by a superior officer or
supervisor.
Q Are you aware of any proper direction that was
made by a supervisor or superior officer to Mr. Ripley which
led to his termination?
A Yes.
Q And what would that be, sir?
A The instructions issued by Superintendent Blake to
Mr. Ripley to keep him advised as to any changes and what
was going on with the surgery or pre-surgery, or his absence
in general.
Q As it relates to the policy set forth in 11.7A-16,
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page 15
would you tell us what that policy is, please?
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, I'm sorry, I want to object
to the previous comments, since stating hearsay what
he's been told, what Mr. Blake said, since he was not
present when Mr. Blake presented or made known to Mr.
Ripley.
MR. DARBY: Sustained.
Q 11.7A-16, please, sir.
A The employee has failed to maintain a satisfactory
attendance record. Proper use of sick leave shall not
constitute grounds for any disciplinary action.
Q Are you aware of the position of the City of-
Sanford as to whether or not Mr. Ripley was properly using
sick leave in these circumstances?
A Yes.
Q And what is the position of the City of Sanford?
A The position is that we contend from the period of
March, roughly March the 16th through March the 29th,
whenever it was that the situation changed with Mr. Ripley,
that negated any permission that was given to him by his
supervisor or superintendent to go home. Because the plan
had changed.
MR. GRAY: I have no further questions of this
witness, Mr. Chairman.
MR. DARBY: Okay. Would you like to question the
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witness?
MS. MADDEN: Yes.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. MADDEN-
Q Mr. McCauley, you cite 11.7A --
MR. DARBY: Do you have a mike?
MS. MADDEN: Oh, I'm sorry.
That's why you were sitting.
Q You were citing 11.7A-16, and you state "proper-
use of sick leave," what is the definition of sick leave?
A Authorized sick leave would be that you're out on
an authorized medical absence. It doesn't necessarily mean
you're under doctor's care, it could mean you're out with a
cold or the flu or, you know, something like that, but you
had advised your department what was going on and they
granted you permission to stay home.
Q Is sick leave used also as a term to cover
absences due to Workers' Compensation claims?
A It can supplement a Worker Comp claim.
Q When you speak of sick leave and it may supplement
a Workmen's Compensation claim, are you speaking
specifically in terms of sick leave as compensation received
by the employee from the City for being out sick or sick
days?
A Yes, it's compensation in lieu of regular hours
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----------1
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war k.
Q Did Mr. Ripley receive sick leave pay on March
16th or any time after that, through March 29th?
A I would not be in a position to testify to that.
I don't know.
Q Would anyone else here tonight be in a better
position to testify than yourself?
A Yes, I believe Mr. Moore has researched that.
MS. MADDEN: Thank you. I have no further
questions.
MR. GRAY: Nothing further, Mr. Chairman.
MR. DARBY: You may be excused.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, at this time we'd call
Mr. John Blake.
JOHNNIE BLAKE
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRAY:
Q Mr. Blake, I'll ask you to speak up, please sir,
so the microphone will pick up.
Would you state your name, please, for the record?
A Johnnie L. Blake.
Q Mr. Blake, where are you employed?
A City of Sanford.
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Page 18
Q And what is your position with the City of
Sanford, sir?
A Sewer Superintendent.
Q And how long have you held that position?
A As Sewer Superintendent, I believe five years.
Q All right, sir. And you were the Sewer
Superintendent for the year 1989 and 1990, to date?
A Yes.
Q Are you acquainted with Mr. Robert Ripley?
A Yes.
Q Was he one of the personnel that you supervised?
A Yes.
� And was he one of those persons during the year
1989 and 1990?
A Yes.
Q Was Mr. Ripley a full-time active employee for you
during the year 1990?
A Yes.
Q Did there come a time that he was not able to
perform on a full-time active basis?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall that he was out due to an injury
that was purported to have occurred in December?
A Yes.
Q Do you have any recollection of Mr. Ripley
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returning
back to work on a less than full status
level?
A
Yes.
sir?
Q
Do you recall when he returned back to
work?
A
I believe it was March the 6th.
Q
Of this year?
A
Yes.
Q
All right, sir. And when he returned,
what sort
of work was
he doing?
A
He was basically doing light duty type
work.
Q
Was he able to perform that work?
A
Yes.
Q
Did there come a time that he had difficulty
performing
the light duty work?
A
Yes.
Q
And do you recall when that was, sir?
A
Yes. I believe it was sometime during
the week
prior to
the 16th of March.
Q
And what kind of difficulty was he having,
sir?
A
He had stated to me that he was taking
medication
and that
it was affecting him.
�
Did there come a time that Mr. Ripley was
released
to go home from work?
A Yes.
Q And when
was that,
sir?
A I believe
that was
after the 16th.
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Q Did you have any discussions with Mr. Ripley on
that day?
A Yes.
Q And what were those discussions, sir?
A I advised him that we was going to allow him to go
home, but he need to communicate with us ever day in
reference to his situation.
Q Who was present when you had that conversation
with Mr. Ripley?
A I believe his immediate supervisor, Rudy
Encarnacion.
Q
Where
did
that conversation
take place?
A
In my office.
Q
And
where
is your office,
Mr. Blake?
A
The
Utility
building,
412 West Fourteenth Street.
Q
All
right,
sir. Mr.
Encarnacion was present; is
that correct?
A
Yes.
Q
Mr.
Ripley
present?
A
Yes.
Q
And
yourself?
A
Correct.
Q
Was
there
anyone else
present?
A
No.
Q
Are
you able
to close
the door to your office?
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A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall whether or not the door was closed
at that time?
A Yes, sir. It was closed.
Q Are you able to see outside of your office through
any windows or doors?
A No, sir.
Q Okay. At any time in the past, Mr. Blake, has Mr.
Ripley been out for extended periods of time?
A Yes.
Q What -- During any of those past extended periods
of time, has he been given any direction on whether or not
he should stay in contact with yourself or Mr. Encarnacion?
A Yes, sir.
Q What was that direction in the past?
A I feel I have to elaborate on that to really get
it across to you.
Mr. Ripley stated that he didn't have a telephone
and he was having problems communicating with me, so he
asked me would it be okay for him to communication with me
on Friday when he picked up his paycheck. I advised Mr.
Ripley that we will go ahead on and try that, but it came to
be a problem, whereas, even on Friday sometimes, I didn't
get a chance to see him, so I advised him prior to the 16th
that we would have to change that and 1 needed for him to
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page 22
communicate with me on a daily basis.
Q All right, sir.
Now the time period during which you permitted
this Friday contact, was that the period of time from March
the 16th until he was terminated, or was that some prior
period?
A That was before March the 16th.
Q Okay. Do you recall when it was, sir?
A I couldn't recall the precise date, but I know it
was the time between December and before March. And he had
went to the doctor and I knowed he was going to be out for a
long period of time and that's why I allowed him to do what
he did.
Q All right, sir. Now prior to Mr. Ripley being
permitted to go home on March the 16th of this year, was
there any discussion you had with him regarding any surgery?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall when that discussion took place?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what is your recollection, sir, of when that
discussion took place?
A I believe that was March the 16th.
Q Might it have been as early as the 15th or the
14th?
A 1 believe it was sometime during the 16th.
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page 23
Q
All right, sir.
Now do you recall what,
if anything,
Mr. Ripley
advised you
regarding the surgery?
A
Yes.
Q
What did he tell you?
A
He stated that he had to
go to pre-op
on the 23rd
of March,
and he was supposed to
be scheduled for
surgery on
the 28th
of March.
Q
Did he provide you any
documentation
to show that
he actually
had those procedures
scheduled?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Mr. Blake, let me show
you these two
sheets. Do
you recognize
them?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
!.')o they appear to be the
sheets that
were given to
You, by Mr.
Ripley on the 20th . .
. or the 16th?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Thank you.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
I'll submit
those into
the
record. Thank you.
Q
Do you know if Mr. Ripley
had the pre-operative
procedures
that he indicated that
he was gozng
to have on
March the
23rd?
A
No, sir.
Q
You don 't know?
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A
I know he didn't have them.
the
morning, szr/
Q
How
is it that you know, sir?
morning.
Q
A
Basically
we went out to his house
on the 29th of
March and
he
advised me that he didn't go
through
with it.
Q
All
right, sir. Do you know if
he had
the surgery
on the 28th?
A
No,
he didn't have that either.
Q `
Did
Mr. Ripley communicate with
you at
all after
March the
23rd
of 1990?
A
No,
sir.
Q
When
you arrived at Mr. Ripley's
home,
what did
you observe
on the 29th of March?
A
Mr.
Ripley was cutting his yard.
MS.
MADDEN: I'm sorry, could you speak
up just a
little
bit, Mr. Blake, I'm having trouble hearing
you.
A
Mr. Ripley was outside cutting
his
yard.
Q
Do you recall what time of
day it
was?
|
A
I believe it was approximately
about
eleven
o'clock
Q
In
the
morning, szr/
A
In
the
morning.
Q
And
was
anyone accompanying you?
A
Yes,
sir.
Q
Who
was
with you?
A
Mr.
McCauley.
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29th.
MS. MADDEN: I'm sorry. Maybe I misunderstood
Q
Did you have any discussion with Mr. Ripley
that
day
as to why he had not gone ahead with his
surgery?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
And what was the substance of the discussion
you
had
with Mr. Ripley?
A
Mr. Ripley stated at that time that he had
went
to
a Dr. Toby, I believe his name was, to get a
second
opinion,
and after getting the second opinion he
decided
not to go through with it.
Q
And did he advise you that he had told anyone
with
the
City of Sanford of that decision?
A
No, sir.
Q
Thank you.
MS.
MADDEN: I sorry. I couldn't -- I hate to
interrupt,
I could not hear what date Mr. Ripley saw
Mr.
Toby?
MR.
BLAKE: I didn't hear her.
MS.
MADDEN: Did you ask, I could not hear you,
did
you
indicate a date when Mr. Ripley . . . on which
Mr.
Ripley
told you he saw Dr. Toby?
MR.
BLAKE: When we went out to his house on the
29th.
MS. MADDEN: I'm sorry. Maybe I misunderstood
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sage 26
Did you indicate a date on which he said he saw
Dr. Toby? Do you know what date he had seen Dr. Toby?
I couldn't hear your response previously?
MR. BLAKE: I wouldn't know the date. I can only
tell you what he told me.
MS. MADDEN: What did he tell you?
MR. BLAKE: He told me that he went to see Dr.
Toby to get a second opinion.
BY MR. GRAY:
Q And he told you that on the 29th, was that your
testimony?
A
Yes.
He
told me that on
the 29th. I
don't know
what date
he went.
MS.
MADDEN:
Thank you.
Q
Mr.
Blake,
you heard the
statement of
policy by
Mr. McCauley just
a moment ago as
it relates to
absenteeism?
A
Yes,
sir.
Q
Did
you
give any specific
direction to
Mr. Ripley
on the 16th as
to
the terms under
which he would
be
permitted
to stay
at home?
A
Yes,
sir.
Q
And
what
was that direction,
sir?
A
Mr.
Ripley
led me to believe
that he was
going to
have surgery done
on the thumb, so
that was the
term
allowing him
to
have
the time off.
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Q And did you advise him the manner or the frequency
with which he was to contact you or other representatives of
the City?
A Every day.
Q Thank you. When you stated that policy to Mr.
Ripley, did you form an opinion as to whether or not he
understood what you were telling him?
A I don't have no doubt about Mr. Ripley
understanding me. I know that he understood what I told
him.
I can probably reiterate the fact that he had
those documents that he showed previously and we had advised
him at that time that we didn't know anything about that
surgery. That's why I know that I brung that point across
to him to make sure that he let me know every day of his
absence.
Q Other than March the 16th of 1990, had you
discussed this policy with Mr. Ripley in the past?
A Repeat that?
Q Other than the discussion that you had with Mr.
Ripley on March the 16th of this year, had you discussed the
policy of that absenteeism with Mr. Ripley in the past?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall any specific occasions?
A I think it was sometime in '89, whereas, I had to
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Vage 28
give him a written reprimand for being absent without
permission.
Q Can I see that letter, May the 11th?
Mr. Blake, Let me show you this letter which is
dated May 11th, 1989, do you recognize it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you dictate that letter?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are those your initials on the right of where it
says from Johnnie Blake, Sewer Superintendent?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you present when the signature at the bottom
was applied?
A Yes, sir.
Q Whose signature was that?
A Mr. Ripley.
Q All right. And may I ask you, sir, if this
recites the policy you have just discussed with us?
A Yes, sir.
Q Thank you.
MR. GRAY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Nothing
further from this witness, Mr. Chairman.
MR. DARBY: Do you have some questions?
MS. MADDEN: Yes, I do.
CROSS EXAMINATION
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Page 29
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Mr. Blake, I believe you've already testified here
tonight that although you discussed this policy with Mr.
Ripley on May 11th, 1989, that you did have a different
understanding with him in relation to his absenteeism for
his Workers' Compensation injury to his thumb during the
period . . . at least during the first part of 1990 or from
the period of his accident on 12-89; is that not what you
testified earlier?
A That's correct.
Q So even though this policy was written and
addressed to him in May, he certainly had a different
understanding from you at a later date.
A Well, I tried to --
Q Well, let me ask you the question.
All right. You've indicated that you told him --
Let me refer back to your --
Let me ask you first, Mr. Blake, were you present
in the offices of the City of Sanford on May 7th, when your
deposition taken?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall at that time that I asked you .
. . that I told you I was going to ask you questions, and
that if you did not understand the questions, to let me
know, and that otherwise we'd assume that your answers that
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were taken under oath were true to the best of your memory?
A To the best of my memory.
Q Okay. Excuse me one moment, I need to refer to
page and line for you and this deposition was lengthy.
Mr. Blake, your memory seems to have improved
tonight over our deposition time. Have you worked on your
deposition, or your testimony tonight with anyone connected
to or working for the City of Sanford?
A Yes.
Q May I ask who you worked with?
A Mr. McCauley.
Q And anyone else?
A No,,
MS. MADDEN: Okay. If I may refer you, counselor,
to Mr. Blake's deposition, to page eleven and page
twelve of his deposition. In fact, I'll take you back
to page ten where Mr. Blake is referring to
conversations that he had with Mr. Ripley on March
16th.
MR. GRAY: Do you have a line?
MS. MADDEN: Yes. The most pertinent line -- Let
me start you at a good point so that it's clear.
Originally on page eleven, line eight. Question,
line -- I'm sorry, line six. Question: --
Prior to that, if T may just capsulize, Mr. Blake
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Pane
had been discussing the fact, as he's testified here
earlier today, that Mr. Ripley indicated that he was
dizzy during his medication. I then asked Mr. Blake,
"Okay. Did you have any other discussion with him at
all that date, at any time?" Answer, "The only
discussion I had with Mr. Ripley, he stated that he was
. . . had a problem resting that night because of
medication, came in claiming to work, but stayed at
work for one hour, picked up his check and then left."
"And you don't recall any other conversation you had
with him that day?" "No." The answer is no. "Do you
recall any discussion with Mr. Ripley about when he was
to come back to work?" "Repeat that," was the answer.
Question, "Do you recall any discussion you had with
Mr. Ripley regarding when he was to come back to work?"
A . . . Answer, "Okay." Question, "After that day?"
Answer, "There was a time whereas he called me and
stated to me that he was supposed to go in for
pre-surgery and he asked me if he could come pick up
his check early at City Hall."
Q Now, Mr. Blake, nowhere in that conversation do
you indicate any memory of the specifics of your discussions
with Mr. Ripley on March 16th, and yet you testified tonight
here that you remember it clearly. Could I ask you which
testimony under oath was correct, that on March 16th or that
IL7�
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Page 32
tonight? And how, Mr. Blake, are we to know which day you
were telling the truth on?
A I don't understand what you're saying.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, if I can interpose an
objection. First of all, this body doesn't have before
it the deposition, and there has been a
characterization that there is a difference between his
testimony tonight and when the deposition as taken on
May the 7th. I don't believe that is accurate.
If we're going to do this, I think this body needs
to have before it that portion of the deposition.
Because we don't think the categorization is accurate,
that he was incorrect on inconsistent.
I have a copy which I can submit, if counsel
doesn't have an objection to that particular --
MS. MADDEN: I have no objection.
MR. GRAY: I'm sorry I only have one copy.
If I may ask counsel again to recite, I think we
were looking at page eleven, commencing on line six?
MS. MADDEN: That's correct.
MR. GRAY: Thank you. And I believe you read
through line twenty-five.
MS. MADDEN: That's correct.
MR. GRAY: I would also request, Mr. Chairman, if
the witness is going to be asked about testimony that
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he gave on May the 7th, that he have opportunity to see
the deposition to refresh his memory as to what he said
on May the 7th.
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, I think the question here is
the change in memory.
MR. GRAY: Well, I don't believe there has been
any showing that there is a change in memory.
MS. MADDEN: I would ask the witness to answer the
question and then we can go from there and perceive if
there has been a change.
MR. DARBY: I didn't hear you.
MS. MADDEN: I would ask that we proceed with the
questioning and see if there has been a change in
memory. The Civil Service Committee has a copy of the
deposition in front of them and can judge for
themselves.
MR. DARBY: Let me poll the Board on this.
What is your opinion of this, Mr. Greene?
MR. GREENE: If the witness i5 to be impeached by
a prior inconsistent statement, the basis of that prior
inconsistent statement must be established. If it is
through a deposition, the witness should be allowed to
review the deposition and, after reviewing the
deposition, see if that refreshes his memory and then
give him an opportunity to either change his testimony
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�age 3�
or explain his testimony. And if he still does not
want to change his testimony after reading his
deposition, then he may be impeached.
MR. DARBY: Anyone else have an opinion?
MR. RUFAS: Same opinion as Tom has.
MR. DARBY: Would you -- The objection, then, was
should -- What should we do about the objection?
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, if I may, the deposition has
been read to him. He has been apprised of his previous
statement. I have no problem. He's been read the
statement, the statement has been provided to him, as
his comments in Court.
MR. GREENE: I think we ought to sustain the
City's objection as improper impeachment of the
witness, unless the witness is allowed to read his
deposition and refresh his memory.
MR. McQUATTERS: Is that something that can be
accomplished in a conference here in a few minutes?
MS. MADDEN: He should be permitted to do that
here.
MR. GREENE: Mr. Blake can read it.
Talking about one specific page?
MS. MADDEN: There will be more, but I will be
glad to pinpoint those by line and number, and I
certainly would not agree to letting him leave the room
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�age 35
and reviewino the whole document.
questioning.
MS. MADDEN: I'll give him a moment to read.
MR. DARBY: Okay.
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, I would ask you --
Nevermind. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Mr. Blake, have you had time to read that page?
Mr. Blake, have you had an opportunity to read
page eleven?
A Yes,
Q And, Mr. Blake, on that page, I believe I read it
correctly, that your . . . the question was, "And you don't
recall any other conversation you had -- I'm sorry. Go back
to page seven. If you have copies, I won't repeat it line
MR.
GREENE:
No.
MR.
DARBY:
What
shall we do? Give the witness
the
only
copy we
have
and let him proceed?
MR.
GRAY:
Mr. Chairman,
I think I can resolve
that
dilemma.
I've
got
a copy here, if I can look over
his
shoulder,
I
don't
mind giving him this one to read.
Six
through
twenty-five.
MS.
MADDEN:
Yes.
Page eleven, six through
twenty-five.
MR.
DARBY:
You may
continue with your
questioning.
MS. MADDEN: I'll give him a moment to read.
MR. DARBY: Okay.
MS. MADDEN: Counsel, I would ask you --
Nevermind. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Mr. Blake, have you had time to read that page?
Mr. Blake, have you had an opportunity to read
page eleven?
A Yes,
Q And, Mr. Blake, on that page, I believe I read it
correctly, that your . . . the question was, "And you don't
recall any other conversation you had -- I'm sorry. Go back
to page seven. If you have copies, I won't repeat it line
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page 36
for line.
Mr. Blake, your memory of that day's testimony, or
that question, is different today. Could you please tell me
which testimony was correct, that you gave tonight, or the
testimony you gave on May 7th?
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, I'll again object to the
form of the question. I don't think there has been any
showing of any difference between the testimony.
MS. MADDEN: All right.
Q Mr. Blake, let me restate the question.
Tonight you have testified that you remember very
specifically what you stated to Mr. Ripley on March 16,
about the terms under which he was to communicate with you.
And I believe you testimony, if I'm wrong please correct me
by the record of the Court Reporter, that you testified that
you told him to communicate with you every day.
A That's correct.
Q Now on page eleven, beginning at line six, you
state that you do not recall any other conversation you had
with him that day. Other than the conversation you have
already repeated was you had about his status about having
to have. Let me also address your attention, to complete
that statement, to page twelve, and give you an opportunity
to read that page.
And, if 1 may address the Commission --
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Page 37
A I haven't finished reading yet.
Q I'm just going to address the Commission's
attention also to page twelve, they have a copy there,
specifically looking through lines one through twenty-fjve.
One through twenty-four.
Mr. Blake, on page twelve, beginning at line ten,
prior to that we discussed, again, whether you knew if he'd
come in that day on the 16th and again you -- I'm sorry. --
you again state what -- I'm sorry. Back up a question. On
the previous page, there was a time when Mr. Ripley called
in and said to me he had to have pre-surgery and could he
come in and pick his check up early. I think you . . . That
refers to March 23rd. When you say earlier -- When you say
early, that means early in the day, or early in the week?
Early in the day. Early in the day? Yes. I know he came
in, he came up to City Hall, picking up his check. And the
reason he go in to pick up his check, he had to go to
pre-surgery. Okay. Did you have any other discussion that
morning? Yes, I told Mr. Ripley to keep me informed of the
situation. Do you remember the day of the week that was?
Friday. Do you recall anything else that morning? I don't
recall anything. Question, so, so far as you remember, you
told me everything you remember about your conversation with
Mr. Ripley on March 16th and everything you remember of your
conversation; is that correct? Best I got."
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�age 3S
That was your best memory on May 7th, is that
correct?
I know what
I said to
A I can't recall May
the
7th. I have a problem with
remembering every date.
know it better
Q And you -- Was Mr.
McCauley
present during your
deposition on May 7th?
A For a little while.
I remember
that.
Q And you say you have
prepared
for tonight with Mr.
McCauley, since May 7th; is
that
correct?
A Correct.
Q And your memory is
now
better tonight than it was
on May, 7th; is that correct?
Is
that your testimony?
A I basically had an
opportunity to read over it.
Q Read over what?
A I still can't remember
everything that happened on
that particular day.
Q Are you indicating,
Mr.
Blake, that your memory of
the specific details that you testified earlier tonight may
not be the correct memory of
what
actually was said that
day?
A
I know what
I said to
Mr.
Ripley.
Q
How do you
know it better
tonight than you knew it
on May
7th?
A
I remember
that.
Q
What do you
remember,
Mr.
Blake?
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rage 39
A I told you that previously.
Q What did you tell me, Mr. Blake?
A What are you questioning now?
Q Why do you remember better tonight what you said
on May 16th than you did on May 27th, which is closer?
A I had an opportunity to go over it again.
Q What did you go over again?
A What I --
Q Did you have written notes, Mr. Blake, of your
conversation on May 16th?
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you have written notes of your conversation
with Mr. Ripley on May 23rd?
A No, I didn't.
Q What did you go over again to refresh your memory,
Mr. Blake?
A The conversation that I had on the 16th with Mr.
Ripley when he came in my office. I went over that with
myself, in my mind.
Q And your memory is now better tonight than it was
on May 7th; is that correct?
A Well, I can remember some things now that I
couldn't remember May the 7th. I can't remember everything
that happened in one day. You can't do that.
Q But it's your testimony that you believe you can
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Page �0
remember better tonight than you did earlier in time?
A Some things.
Q Was your memory assisted, Mr. Blake, by going over
your testimony with Mr. McCauley?
A I don't understand your question.
Q Was your memory assisted by going over your
testimony with Mr. McCauley?
A Somewhat.
MS. MADDEN: Thank you, Mr. Blake.
MS. MADDEN: Gentlemen, I would proffer that the .
. . Mr. Blake's testimony as to his memory tonight and
his memory on the 16th . . . the 7th, is called into
question, since his testimony differs from one time to
the other and he's intending to repeat to you that his
testimony is better tonight, after he's had an
opportunity to prepare his testimony for tonight with
Mr. McCauley, as opposed to his testimony that he gave
on May 7th.
MR. BLAKE: May I say something?
MR. DARBY: If, after she gets through
questioning, after she gets through questioning you,
you may. We have some questions for you also.
Q Mr. Blake, you testified earlier, I believe, that
you had seen documents that Mr. Ripley had presented to you
regarding his proposed surgery and his pre-op appointment;
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Page Q.
is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Are you familiar with the date on that document?
A Yes.
Q And what is the date on that document?
A I believe it's March the 14th.
Q And so Mr. Ripley talked with you sometime before,
between March 14th and 16th about that surgery; is that
correct?
A I believe so.
Q Would you agree that Mr. Ripley was timely in
telling you about that surgery, if the document, the
earliest he had, was March 14th?
A Yes.
Q It's difficult not working with two hands. One
hand is difficult.
Mr. Blake, you testified earlier that Mr. Ripley
had been out sick previous, during previous periods of 1990.
Was it your opinion that Mr. Blake . . . Mr. Ripley was
taking advantage of his Workers' Compensation injury to stay
home?
MR.
GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
I'm going to
object to
any such
line of questioning.
This is not
a hearing
tonight regarding
Workmen's Compensation,
and it's
irrelevant whether or not Mr.
Blake has an
opinion as
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to whether or not Mr. Blake has an opinion as to the
authenticity or seriousness of any preceding injuries.
We're here tonight regarding a problem with absenteeism
and I don't believe it's appropriate to present that
testimony.
MS. MADDEN: If I may.
MR. DARBY: Yes.
MS. MADDEN: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Blake, according to
his own testimony, is the gentleman who prepared the
forms indicating the grounds for Mr. Ripley's
termination and dismissal. I think it is relevant to
that testimony, should it be shown that Mr. Blake had
attitudes or views about Mr. Ripley that were in
existence that were above and beyond those grounds
documented in writing and that those also form a part
of his reasons for terminating Mr. Blake, and I do
think that's relevant and I think the question should
be permitted. I think the Commission needs to have a
full view of the circumstances of his termination.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, if I can respond to that.
I believe it might be a pertinent or appropriate or
proper question to inquire as to the basis upon which
Mr. Blake prepared or assisted in preparation of
disciplinary documents, but to fish all over on
irrelevant matters I think is improper and certainly
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Page 43
could inflame this body, it could confuse this body,
and it is not within the scope of this hearing this
evening.
MS. MADDEN: Again, I would disagree, that it is
within the scope of the degree of this body since it is
related to the grounds or basis or the attitude behind
Mr. Blake's determination of termination of Mr. Ripley.
MR. DARBY: Yes. We'll poll the Board on that
The question is shall we sustain the City and do
not allow any reference to Workmen's Comp, or shall we
permit Mr. Ripley's attorney to continue the line of
questioning involving Workmen's Comp.
MS. MADDEN: May I correct the characterization of
the question. The question related to time off prior
to -- It happened that time off was related to his
Workers' Comp injury, but my question is two-fold: One
is, was he out sick before that time; and two, did Mr.
Blake have a prior formed impression of Mr. Ripley's
use of that time off? I think that's very clearly
relevant to his attitude that set up the termination.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, I believe we now have
four questions before the witness, and I would ask that
the Court Reporter read back the original question to
which 1 rendered my objection.
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�age 44
MR. DARBY: Will you do that, please.
(Question read by Reporter)
MR. DARBY: Was there an answer?
THE REPORTER: No.
MR. GRAY: That is the question to which I
objected, Mr. Chairman.
MR. McQUATTERS: Dr. Darby?
MR. DARBY: Yes.
MR. McQLATTERS: It seems originally the City
presented a narrow focus for us to search carefully;
that is, of absenteeism and the facts of whether or not
policy, City policy, was followed by not reporting an
absenteeism. And we haven't heard from Ms. Madden yet
about what she sees the case as, but I see as if we go
far afield hither and yond of not being as productive
as focusing in on the facts that show up in the
personnel record as to why it is that he was fired. I
think it would be more productive to try to get as
clear a picture of his attendance and what was said
about his attendance and whether or not he followed all
the rules that he could and focus more narrowly on just
those things, rather than possibly personal bias on the
part of anyone. That's my opinion.
And we ought to stay more closely focused on the
particular behavior of absenteeism.
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�age �5
MS. MADDEN: I believe also, if I can bring your
attention, gentlemen, that counsel --
MR. McQUATTERS: Excuse me.
MS. MADDEN: -- for the City brought this back up
MR. McQUATTERS: Aren't you going to listen to all
of us first?
MR. DARBY: Yes.
MS. MADDEN: I'm sorry. I just wanted to bring
you --
MR. DARBY: Just a minute.
Mr. Cavellaro?
MR. CAVELLARO: I agree with that thought process,
primarily because I don't feel like we have enough
documents up here. I don't see any Workers'
Compensation accident report as it relates to a thumb,
or a hand, or a finger, or anything else, to even
support time off. I was, of course, going to, as you
originally said, we're primarily looking at absenteeism
and that happens to be one particular document in this
file dated 12-30-88 that refers to Workers'
Compensation claim to a bruised foot or something, but
there is no documentation to follow that up. I'm not
too sure I'm prepared to review that.
MR. DARBY: Mr. Lucas?
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Oage 46
MR. RUFAS: It's not a . . . It's not a Workers'
Comp case.
MR. DARBY: Mr. Greene?
MR. GREENE: I'm going to have to disagree with
all four of you. The reason I'm doing that, I believe
Mr. Blake's recollection or testimony concerning what
he told Mr. Ripley as far as whether he was supposed to
report back to the City and advise them of his medical
progress is part of the action here tonight.
MR. McQUATTERS: I don't question that.
MR. GREENE: And therefore any motive -- I'm not
saying Mr. Blake has any motive -- but any motive,
possible motives or possible biases he may have against
Mr. Ripley should be allowed to be brought out by Mr.
Ripley, through his counsel, and in an attempt to show
possibly Mr. Blake's recollection or whatever is not
completely correct. Therefore, I think the question
should be allowed to be asked and I will overrule the
City's objection, since we're dealing with not only the
absenteeism, but also failure to keep the City advised
of his medical progress. That would be my position.
MR. DARBY: Either one of you have any further
comments?
MS. MADDEN: I would only mention that it was
brought up on direct question by other counsel
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questioning about Mr. Ripley's absenteeism prior to
March 16th, and the information or the communications
which Mr. Blake has alleged that he made to Mr. Ripley
prior to March 16th through the 29th, then I certainly
think it comes within my cross examination to cover
that period also.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, just to respond. That is
correct, I did inquire about previous time for the
specific purpose of putting on testimony that Mr.
Ripley had been advised of the policy on previous
occasion. What my specific objection would be is to
any testimony from this witness as to his opinion of
any authenticity of illness for which Workmen's
Compensation was claimed. That's my specific
objection. And I think that was part of the question,
what is his opinion of this man's Workmen's Comp claim,
and that's just not relevant.
MS. MADDEN: The question was in this man's
opinion relative to his absenteeism for Workers'
Compensation claim, I believe, as read back by the
Court Reporter.
MR. GRAY: If the question is your opinion as to
whether or not he was appropriately absent, I'll
withdraw my objection. If it is as to the authenticity
of Workmen's Comp, my objection stands.
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Page 49
MS. MADDEN: My question is to his opinion as to
whether or not he felt that Mr. Ripley took advantage
and misused his absenteeism for his Workers'
Compensation injury. That was my question, as stated,
I believe, as close as I can recall repeating at this
point, which I'm beginning to lose track of that, to be
quite honest with you.
That's as close as I can get right now.
MR. DARBY: I'll permit Mr. Blake to answer your
first question.
MR. BLAKE: It's been so long, gentlemen, I don't
know if I can remember.
MR. DARBY: Repeat the question, please.
MS. MADDEN: I would ask the Court Reporter to
re-read it, because I don't want to open myself to more
objections because I did not restate it the same
fashion.
(Question read by Reporter.)
A In my opinion, yes.
MS. MADDEN: Thank you.
MR. BLAKE: You want an opinion. I gave you my
opznIon"
MR. DARBY: You may proceed.
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Mr. Blake, this question may sound the same to
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you, it's somewhat different. I want to be sure you to
understand the difference. I asked you previously the
question you just answered, and I'd like to also ask you --
MR. DARBY: Would you speak up.
Q -- in your opinion, did you feel Mr. Blake was out
and had too many absences prior to March 16th?
A It sound like you call my name.
Q I'm sorry, I may have.
Mr. Blake, did you feel that Mr. Ripley was having
too many absences, was out too many times prior to March
16th?
A
Yes.
Q
I'm sorry,
Mr.
Blake,
I couldn't hear your answer.
A
Yes.
Q
Thank you.
Mr. Blake,
you
have testified,
as I understand it,
that prior
to March
16th
it was
your understanding with Mr.
Ripley
that he only
had
to call
you on Fridays; is that
correct?
A
Correct.
Q
Do you know
what
. . .
with what frequency he
called
in prior to March
16th, when
he was out?
A
No.
Q
Who would
know
what .
. . when Mr. Ripley called
in when
he called in
to say he was
out?
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page 50
A He would call his immediate supervisor, Mr. Rudy
Encarnacion.
Q
Would
Mr. Encarnacion be the best testifier when
and how
often
Mr. Ripley would call in when he was out
absent?
A
Yes.
Q
Mr.
Blake, you have testified that you helped
prepare
the form
requiring the termination or stating the
grounds
for the
termination of Mr. Ripley.
MS.
MADDEN: I -- I'm sorry. Does he have a copy
of
that
form up there? I believe you carried one up
there.
MR.
GRAY: Disciplinary action record?
MS.
MADDEN: Yes, I'm referring to the -- Yes,
dated
3-30-90.
MR.
GRAY: I don't think I have provided a copy.
Do
you have an extra copy?
MS.
MADDEN: I only have the one copy.
MR.
GRAY: I think I have one.
Q
Mr.
Blake, if I may call your attention to item
11.7A-4,
and
ask you what action of Mr. Ripley you felt
constitutes
a
violation about procedure.
A
I made
a direct order to Mr. Ripley in reference
to call
me on
a daily basis and he failed to do that.
MS.
MADDEN: I'm sorry. Could the Court Reporter
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read the last statement, I didn't hear.
(Answer read by Reporter)
Q On the date of exit?
A % a daily basis.
Q Daily basis.
And when did you give him that communication?
A Here we go with dates again. From my
recollection, I talked to Mr. Ripley on the 16th and again
on the 23rd in reference to that particular statement.
Q Mr. Blake, if I can refer you to page thirty-one
of your deposition, line fifteen, -- I'm sorry, start with
line eleven.
Am I -- Let me give you a chance to review that
page.
A
Review what?
Q
Page thirty-one of
your
deposition.
A
I don't have that.
Q
Oh, I'm sorry.
MR. GRAY: Thirty-one?
Q
I'm sorry. If I may
refer
you further up to give
you full
opportunity, if you
will
start with line four.
A
Okay.
Q
Mr. Blake, if I may
cite
those sections for the
record,
line four, page thirty-one
begins, What actions, in
your opinion
-- Question on my
part.
What actions, in your
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�age 52
opinion, constitute a violation of the next rule down there
11.7A-4? Answer, well, he was basically told to keep me
informed of the situation and he failed to do it. Question,
and what specifically did you tell him to do about keeping
you informed? Answer, repeat that. Question, well what you
say he was supposed to keep you informed, how was he
supposed to keep you informed? Answer, well, he was
supposed to have been scheduled for surgery and everything.
Question, uh-huh. -- My poor answer, gentlemen. -- Answer,
and he supposed, when he went to the doctor for the
pre-surgery arrangements, he supposed to let me know what
was happening and whether or not he was going to go on with
it or not. Question, Okay. Did you specifically ask him to
tell you that? Answer, sure. Question, When did you tell
him this? On our telephone conversation that same morning.
Question, you told him that morning to call you after he
went to the pre-surgery testing? Answer, well, I basically
told him to keep me informed, you know. These rules and
regulations, like we state, this guy had been with us a long
time, he knows the rules and regulations.
Mr. Blake, nothing in that conversation on your
deposition on May 7th says that you specifically told him to
report to you daily. Could you clarify for me your
testimony tonight where you state that you did and your
testimony on May 7th, and tell me which testimony is
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correct?
A Well, as you can relate to lire thirteen, whereas,
line thirteen, my answer, well, he supposed to have beer
scheduled for surgery and everything. You know.
Q Mr. Blake, specifically my question was about the
testimony on what you specifically told him about reporting
daily. On those pages in your deposition of May 7th, you
did not state that you told him specifically to report
daily. That is my question.
A Well, I may not have told you that --
Q But you testified -- Go ahead, I'm sorry.
A I may not have told you that, but I know that I
told him that.
Q Mr. Blake, may I ask you why, when you were under
oath on May 7th and I asked you on more than one occasion tc
tell me specifically everything you told hiT on that day,
that you did not tell me that?
A Basically because how I feel right now. Tense,
nervous. I can't remember everything'
Q I'm asking you about your statement on --
Nevermind, strike that.
MS. MADDEN: I have no further questions of this
witness.
MR. DARBY: Thank you. Do you have any more
questions?
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MR.
GRAY:
Yes, sir^
just
a couple.
REDIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR.
GRAY:
Q
Mr.
Blake,
after the
deposition
on May the 7th,
did you
have
an opportunity
to read
the typed up
transcription
of your
deposition?
A
Yes,
sir.
Q
Did
it in
any way
assist
in refreshing your
recollection
1990�
of what
had occurred
during the month of
March,
A
Yes,
MR.
sir.
GRAY:
Nothing
further.
MR.
DARBY:
Is there
any
questions f-om any
member
of
the Board
of
the witness?
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Before
I ask Mr. Blake a
question,
I'd like
to clarify
my own understanding.
Ms.
Madden,
my own
personal
understanding of
the
reason
for
your
questioning
or
what, I believe, or
inquiring
in my
mind, you
want
us to see is two-fold:
One,
I believe
are
�rying
to illustrate to us
that
you
Mr.
Blake
does
not remember
things
very well, and
therefore
we shouldn't
put much
credence in what
he
says
tonight;
or
that somehow
he's been coached about
what
to
say tonight
so
he'd may the right things
in
favor
of
the City.
Are
those
two things generally
what
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you've illustrated, or tried to illustrate with your
questions?
MS. MADDEN: I think
my main point is his .
. .
that his memo~y, for
whatever reason, has been
different on two occasions
and primarily he does
not
remember clearly what
was stated or said on a specific
date or occasion and
�hat his testimony tonight nay
have been assisted bv
other documentation or other
items to improve i�,
but it certainly has changed
from
his testimony on May
7th.
MR. McOUATTERS:
So are you agreeing wi�h what
. .
. my statement?
MS. MADDEN: I thirk
basically I'm agreeing
with
what you're saying.
I think the main focus is the
fact
that I think primarily,
�hatever his need or motivation
is, it may sim�ly be
nothing more than he does not
remember clearly, that
Mr. Blake does not remember
clearly what was said
speci�ically on the da/s in
question when he was
communicating with Mr. 9ipley.
MR. McQUATTERS:
Thank you.
Mr. Blake, I can
certainly relate to yoo about
being nervous. You're
certainly not under questjon
here. �peaking for myself,
and I feel competent
the
Board, all we want to
know is what the truth is.
What
went on. Want to know
what to do, being fair and
EA]
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right. And I believe from your comment, you said, --
Let me get �o my first question. Excuse me.
About toc many absences, as you said, Mr. Blake
had to many absences. Is that your job as supervisor,
to monitor City employees who don't worx enough, who
have too many absences, to know about that, and are you
charged, as super"isor, to take corrective action when
you observe those kinds of things going on?
MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
MR. McQUATTERS: The information you've given us
here tonight here has been t
pretty specific. Is hat
what went on to the best of what you know? You seem
�retty . . . pretty sure that Mr. Ripley knew what he
was supposed to do so far as reportirg.
MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
MR. �cQUATTERS: Are you sure of c7. in your own
mind?
MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
MR. McQUATTERS: No other questions just now.
MR. DARBY: Mr. Cavellaro?
MR. CAVELLARO: Mr. Blake, whose idea was it to go
out and find out when you found Mr. Ripley cutting the
lawn or mowing the lawn, what prompted that?
MR. BL4KE: Well, I haven't heard anything from
Mr. Ripley since the 23rd and my supervisors asked me
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questions in reference to him and I supposed to answer,
so I had to find out. So, he wouldn't call me, so I
had to go out to his house.
MR. DARBY: That was on the 29th?
MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
MR. CAVELL two O: How long was Mr. Ripley absent-"
MR. BLAKE: Probably a week.
MR. CAVELLARO: One week?
MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
MR. CAYELLARO: Thank you,
MR. DARBY: Mr. Lucas?
MR. RUFAS: Rufas. R-u.,
MR. DARBY: Rufas, excuse me.
MR. RUFAS: I have no questions.
MR. DARBY: Mr. Greene?
MR. GREENE: No questions.
MS. MADDEN: Gentlemen, I wasn't giver an
opportunity for recross after Mr. Gray's redirect, May
I ask one or two more questions of Mr. Blake?
May I ask one or two more questions of Mr. Blake?
MR. DARBY: Yes.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Mr. Blake, forgive me if I'm repeating earlier
questions, but it's . . . is it my understanding that you
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did speak with Mr. Blake . . . Mr. Ripley on March 16th
regarding his status when he . . . and then tnat you again
did talk with him on March 23rd?
A What do you mean by status?
Q Well, just -- I'm sorry. May I just ask a
question.
Is my understanding correct that you spoke with
him on the 16th and that you again talked to him on the
23rd, that was the next time you spoke with him was on March
23rd?
A
On
the 23rd I talked
to Mr.
Ri,�e�
on the phone.
Q
And
there had been
a week's
period
between the
16th
and
the
23rd; is that
correct?
A
I'm
talking to him
a week
period between
the 23rd
and the
29th.
�
My
question is,
was there
a week's
Jeriod between
your
conversation
with him
on the 16th
and the
23rd?
A
I don't
remember.
Q
Do
you remember
talking with
him at
any other time
between
March
16th and March
23rd?
A
No.
Q
Assuming
that it
was a week
period
from Friday to
Friday,
I understand
-- it
my understanding,
then, that
although
it's
your position
tonight
that you
t im to
call
every
day,
that you didn't
call
him between
the 16th
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and the
23rd
to see why
he wasn't
calling
every
day; is that
correct?
A
He
called his
immediate
supervisor.
Q
Are
you personally
aware
of his
conversation
with
his immediate
supervisor
during
the week
between
the 16th
and the
23rd?
A
No.
But &
there's
a problem,
my foreman
would
inform me
of
it.
Q
But
you don't
know,
you weren t
personally
present
when he
talked
to Mr.
Encarnacion;
is that
correct?
A
Correct.
Q
Then
you spoke
with
him on the
23rd and
the next
time you
communicated
with him
was when you
visited
on . . .
his nouse
on
the 29th;
is that
correct`
A
Correct.
MS.
MADDEN:
I have
no further
questions.
MR.
GRAY: One.,
MR.
DARBY:
Yes.
REDIRECT
EXAMINATION
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MR.
DARBY:
Anybody
up here have further
questions?
O
MR.
GREENE:
No.
your name,
please,
MR.
DARBY:
You may
be excused, Mr.
Blake.
MR.
BLAKE:
Thank you.
MR.
GRAY:
Mr. Chairman,
if we may,
we would call
Mr. Rudy
Encarnacion.
your --
Are you
employed
MR.
GFEENE:
Raise
your right hand,
please.
RUDY ENCARNACION
having been first duly sworr, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR.
GRAY:
O
Would
you
state
your name,
please,
sir.
A
My
name
is Rudy
Encarnacion,,
Q
Mr.
Encarnacion,
what is
your --
Are you
employed
by the
City of
Sanford?
A
Q
Yes.
And
o
how
long
have you been
employ`
by the
City?
A
Six
and
a half
years.
Q
What
was
your
job position
with
the City
during
the
year
1989
and
at present?
A
Sewer
Foreman,,
Q
Are
you
acquainted
with
. . . acquainted
with
Robert
Ripley?
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A Yes.
Q Was
he
one of the
people
under
your direct
supervision?
A Yes.
Q And
was
he under your
direct
supervision
in the
year
1989 and
1990?
A Yes.
Q Mr.
Encarnacion,
have
you
had
occasion in the past
to discuss
Sanford?
with
Mr. Ripley the
absentee
policy of the City
of
A Yes,
I
did.
Q All
right.
You've
heard
the testimony
this
evening
regarding
that testimony,
are you
-- or that policy,
are you
familiar
with it, Mr.
Encarnacion?
A Yes.
O Let
me
show to you
the
Employee
Handbook which has
been
previously
referred to,
and
again referring
to page
eleven,
item
nineteen,
under
attendance
and absences, are
familiar
with
this
you
policy?
A Yes.
Q Absences
in excess
of twenty-four
hours wi�hout
approved
explanation
shall e
considered
reason for
dismissal?
A Yes,
Q Have
you
discussed
that
particular
policy with Mr.
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Ripley,
or did you
prior to
March the 16th of this year
A
No, l did
not.
Did you discuss
Q
You didn't
discuss
that with him prior to the
16th?
A
Not prior to
the 16th.
Q
Did you discuss
it with
him on the
16th?
A
Yes.
Q
Who was present
when
you had that
discussion?
A
Mr. Blake.
Q
Was anyone else
present?
A
No.
O
Where did this
con�ersation
take
place?
A
In Mr. Bl&ke's
office.
Q
Do you recall
who, if
anyone, recited
that
vol icy?
A
Could you ask
the question
again?
Q
Who discussed
that policy?
MS. MADDEN:
Counsel,
I object --
A
Mr. Blake.
MS. MADDEN:
-- to the
question.
I object. I
was coing
to object
to the question,
it
was leading and
there
had been no
testimony
zrom Mr.
Encarnacion
that,
indeed,
that policy
had been
discussed.
MR. DARBY: We
hear
can't
you.
MR. McQUATTERS:
Ms.
Madden, you
have to
use that
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���
MS. MADDEN: I'm sorr>'. I keep forgetting it's
lying down here on the table. I could use a stand.
My objection was going to be on the basis that Mr.
Encarnacion . . . the question was leading and rr.
Encarnacion had not testify, nor had he been asked, if
that statement had been made.
MR. GRAY: I believe he had. I'll clear it up.
MR. DARBY: Okay. Will you do that.
BY MR. GRAY:
Q Mr. Encarnacion, I don't know if the policy you
just read on page eleven, item nineteen of the Employees
Handbook, was that policy discussed on the 16th day of
March?
A Yes.
O And was it discussed at the meetirg you just
previously referred to where you, Mr. Blake and Mr' Ripley
were present?
A Yes.
Q Who stated the policy on that date?
A Mr. Blake. So am I.
Q Both of you did?
A Yes,,
Q You heard Mr. Blake's testimony that Mr. Rioley
was advised to call in daily. Did you hear that testimony?
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A
I did heard
what
he
told him
to call
in, call and
keep in
touch
with him,
but
daily,
I cannot
recall
if he did
use that
term.
Q
Okay.
Was
there
anyone
else
present
that dayr
A
No.
Q
You
said this
conversation
took
place
in the
office
of Mr.
Blake?
A
Q
Yes.
All
right.
Is there
a door
to that
office?
A
There's
a door.
There's
a front
doDr
and there's
a back
door.
Q
Do you
recall
if
those
doors
were closed?
A
Q
Yes,
Is it
your
testimony
that they
were
closed?
A
Q
Yes.
Thank
yow.
After
March
the
16th
of 1990,
did you
have any
further
conversations
with
Mr.
Ripley
up and until
the date
that he
A
was terminated
No.
by
the
City?
Q
Did
he at any
time
call
you
on the phone
and talk
to you
during
that time
period
from March
the
16th until
March the
30th?
A
No.
I can't
recall
talking
with him.
Q
Did
anyone
else
call
on his
behalf and
advise of
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CROSS E�AMINATION
BY
MS.
MADDEN:
Q
Mr.
Encarnacion,
you have
testified
that no
one
called
in for
Mr.
Ripley
from the period
M�rch
16t� through
to
March
23rd?
A
Q
No.
May
I ask
then,
did
why did you
not
you
you
.
, .
discuss
with Mr.
Ripley
his
failure
to call
in during
that
period?
A
Never
get
contact
with him
after
the 16th.
Q
I'm
sorry,
I coul�n't
hear
your
answer.
did
hold him
the 16th'
A
I never
get
of
after
Q
Did
you
make any
ef�ort to
get
a
hold of him
between
March
16th
and March
23rd?
A
No.
Q
How
long
have you
been Mr.
Ripley's
supervisor?
A
For
three
years.
O
Has
Mr.
Ripley
been out absent
prior
to March
A Yes, he have.
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Q During those previous absences, did he call if
every day?
A Well, one time he used to call in, and just befors
the 16th, he used to call or either his mother call. Call
one day, skip the other, but not every day.
Q Did you ever discuss with him the fact that before
March 16th when he was out that he or his mother or someone
did not necessarily call in for him every single day7
A No.
Q Mr. Encarnacion, when you were present with the
discussion on March 16th between Mr. Blake and Mr. Ripley,
what was your understanding as to how long Mr. Ripley was
going to be out? Was it yo'', understanding that he was
going to returr to work the following Monday?
A No.
Q What was your understan�ing as to how long he
would be out?
A Well, he was sipposed to be out due to the
surgery, so I really couldn't say how long he was going to
be out,
Q So you did not have any specific understanding
with Mr. Ripley as to the precise date he would return to
work; is that correct?
A Correct,,
MS. MADDEN: I have no further questions.
1)
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MR.
GRAY: Nothing further, Mr.
Chairman.
MR.
DARBY: Anvbody have
any questions?
Bill?
MR.
McQUATTERS: Mr, Carnacion,
on that 16th when
the three
of you were having
the conversation
about
calling in
every day, was it
related
what the
consequences
for not calling
in would
do to Mr.
Ripley's
jobr Such as, you'll
lose
your job if you
don't call
in every day? Was
that mentioned?
MR.
He
was --
He was told to
call just
to let us know what
was taking
place in his
surgery.
And he suppose] to
call because
that's the
policy.
MR.
McQUATTERS: Does he
feel like
he knew the
policy, that
you are suppose
to call
every day�
MR.
ENCARNACION: Yes.
MR.
McQUATTERS: And but
during
those
to the best
the
conversations,
of
your recollection,
consequences
of not doing that
were
not stated; am I
correct in
that, p]ease? In
other words,
I'll makp it
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voice,
that
type of statement.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Okay.
MR.
ENCARNACION:
We just
was concerned
about his
operation
and we just
wanted
him to
call and
let us
know
how
he was doing.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Do other
employees
Saithfully
call
in every
day when
they
are out
for two
or three
days?
MR.
ENCARNACION:
Well,
we have
had situations
like
this
before and
a guy
sick one
day and
don't call
and
come
into work following
day, we
remind
him about
it,
you're
suppose to
call
as part of
policy.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Thank
you'
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Mr. Chairman,
I
do have
one
question.
MR.
DARBY: Yes.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Were you
present
during
the
evaluations
for Mr. Ripley
for the years
1986,
1987 and
1988?
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His
job performance is excellent,
we
have no
problem with
him as a worwr, but his
sttendance
has
been pretty
bad.
MR.
CAVELLARO: Thank you.
MR.
DARBY: George?
MR.
MR.
RUFAS: No questions.
DARBY: Tom?
MR,
GREENE: Nu
questions.
MR.
DARBY: Yoc be
may excused.
MS.
MADnEN: May I just ask --
MR.
DARBY: Oh, excuse me.
MR.
MADDEN: Excuse me, I'm sorry.
I'm not
accustomed to your procedure. It's rare
in court to
have the
judge ask questions.
May
I ask him another question as
to
y'all's
here?
questioning
MR,
DARBY: You certainly may.
MS.
MADDEN: Thank you.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS.
MADDEN:
Q Mr.
Encarnacion, on the previous
times
when Mr.
Ripley,
and
say his attendance, his absences
were bad,
you
was it
your impression
or opinion that he
was
not out sick
in 1990
when he
said he was cut sick?
4 No,
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't
say that. I
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didn't receive
bad impressior about
him.
He was sick, he
was injured,
according to him, and
he had
to go through
surgery, that
was the reason why
he was out
of work, but not
because he wanted
to be out on his
own.
MS.
MADDEN: Thank you.
No further
questions.
MR.
DARBY: Thank you.
You may
be excused.
MR.
ENCARNACION: Thank
your
MR.
GRAY: We would call
Mr. Ripley.
1900
MR.
DARBY: Mr. Ripley.
Avenue-
cc
Be
sworn.
you
are
MR.
GREENE: Raise your
right hand.
you've
asked
ROBERT RIPLEY
before
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR.
GRAY:
Q
Mr,
Ripley,
for the
record,
would you just state
your name
and
address,
please.
A
Robert
Ripley,
1900
South
Oregon
Avenue-
cc
And,
Mr. Ripley,
you
are
the
Appellant here
tonight,
you've
asked
for an appeal
before
this Boards is
that correct?
Q
Q
Yes,
Mr.
sir.
Rinley,
how long
have
neen employed uo
you
March 30th
this
the
City of Sanford?
until
of
year
with
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A
Nine and
a half years.
Q
And so for
the period
of
1989 and
1990, what was
your position
with
the City?
A
Heavy equipment
operator.
Q
Mr. Ripley,
have you
previously
been provided a
copy of
the Employees
Handbook
and
the Personnel
Rules and
Regulations
of the
City of Sanford?
A
Yes, I've.
Q
Do you recall
when
the last
time
you got a copy of
these two
documents?
A
Not right
offhand,
no, l
don't.
MR. GRAY:
Mr. Chairman,
I believe
you have --
MR. DARBY
MR. GRAY:
Yes.
-- an acknowledgement
dated 7-7-B9?
MR. DARBY:
Yes.
Q
Mr. Ripley,
let ne
show you
a copy
of what the
Board already has.
It's a .
. . purports
to be a receipt
of the
Rules and Regulations
and policies
of the City, dated
7-7-89,
is this your
signature?
A
Yes.
Q
Okay. Does
that help
you
refresh
your memory as
to the
last time you
got a copy
of
the rules
and
regulations?
A
Yes.
Q
Did you read
those
rules
and regulations,
Mr.
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%5
Ripley?
A
Well�
if
want the truth, they hand you
a book
you
and
say,
sign
the paper.
Q
Did
you read
those rules and regulations, Mr.
Ripley?
A
Not
at that
time, I hadn't, not
Q
Were
you familiar
with those rules?
A
Yes,
I am.
Q
Mr.
Ripley,
the Board has a copy of a letter
dated
May
the
11th,
1989.
Have you seen that letter before?
A
Q
Yes,
Is that
Yes,
your
I have.
signature on the bottom?
A
Yes,
it is.
Q
Did
read
this letter before signed it?
you
you
A
Yes,
sir, I
did.
Q
Did
read
the last oaragraph, Mr. Ripley,
which
you
advised
the policy
as
to absenteeism and reporting in?
A
Yes,
I did.
Q
All
right.
Thank you.
Mr.
Ripley,
you suffered an injury sometime
in
December
of 1989,
--
A
Q
Yes.
-- and
as a
result of that you missed some work;
am
I correct?
A
Yes,
sir'
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3
4
5
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Q
All right, sir. Did
there come a time
that you
were
able
to report
back to
work on a light duty
status?
A
Yes, sir.
�
And do
you recall
when that was, sir?
A
No, sir.
Q
From the
disciplinary
action record
which
there
has
been
testifying
from today,
there's e statement
that you
returned
back March
the 6th,
1990; does that
refresh
your
recollection?
A
Yes, that's
about
right.
Q
All right.
Mr. Ripley,
did there come
a
time that
had
discussion
with Mr.
Blake or any others
at
the City
you
of
Sanford
regarding
some anticipated
surgery?
A
Yes.
Q
TO you
understand
my question?
A
Not I didn't.
Q
Do you
recall -- Let
me rephrase it
for you.
Do
you
recall having
discussion
with any of yoLr
supervisory
personnel
anticipated
at the
during
City of Sanford
the month
regarding some
of March, 19907'
surgery
you
A
Yes. I
gave them
the paperwork on
March
16th.
Q
You gave
paperwork
to whom on March
16th?
A
I guess
it was I gave
it to Johnnie
Blake
and Rudy
Encarnacion.
Q
Mr. Ripley,
the Board
previously has
been
provided
Di
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35
a copy of
a two
sheet exhibit,
first sheet is
the
pre-operative
patient instructions,
second page
is the
rapid
in and out
surgery
form.
Do you
recognize those
two
documents?
A
Yes,
sir, I do.
Q
Is this
a copy
of the
documents you
gave Mr.
Blake
and Mr. Encarnacion?
A
Yes.
They made
copies
of them.
Q
I believe
you
said that
was on the
16th you
provided it
to
them.
A
Yes,
I think it
was the
16th, yes.
Q
Now,
to clarify,
you
anticipated some
pre-operative
procedures
on March
the 23rd; is
that correct?
A
I don't
understand
your
question.
Q
Like
blood work
and Lhat
sort of thing?
A
Yes.
I was scheduled
for that, yes.
Q
And
then your
surgery
was scheduled
for March
the
28th?
A
Yes.
Q
Okay.
And are
those
the facts that
you
represented
A
to
On the
Mr. Blake
16th,
and Mr.
Encarnacion?
Q
All
yes.
right, sir.
Now,
on the 16th,
were
you able to
complete
your
work schedule?
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4
5
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A
No, sir, I wasn't.
Q
What occurred on that
date?
A
I was out in the sun
painting
a sign with
my right
hand
and I
was getting dizzy
and I was .
. .
it was
hurting
my
hand.
Q
And what?
A
I was painting a sign
with my
right
hand and
it
started
bothering
my hand and
I was dizzy
because
of
my
medication
and the sun.
Q
Did you have a discussion
with
Mr.
Blake or
Mr.
Encarnacion
about your difficulty
in work?
A
Yes, I did.
Q
Where did that discussion
take
�lace?
A
In the foreman's office.
Q
Is that Mr. Blake's
office?
A
Wel1, it's right there
in the
same
office.
Q
Mr. Blake's and Mr.
Encarnacion's?
A
Well, there's only
one sliding
door
separating
it.
Q
I see. You've heard
the description
of this
office
by
Mr. Encarnacion and
by Mr. Blake
tonight,
now,
have
you not?
A
Excuse me?
Q
Have you heard the
description
of the
office
by
Mr.
B]ake
A
and Mr. Encarnacion
Yes.
tonight?
[Al
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y
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25
Q
Is
their
testimon�
description of that
and
office accurate'`
Blake
that there
A
To
a point,
A
Well, there
was o�her
people present.
Q
Well,
what
difference would
you have,
sir,
as
relates
to their
And the
testimony?
Mr. Blake
and Mr. Encarnacion
that
the
A
Well,
closed is incorrect?
there
was more than
just
them in
the
office
and the
office
door
was not closed.
Q
Who
else
door
do you allege to
have
been present
in the
office of
Mr.
Blake?
on that date
that Mr.
Blake
A
I know
Mr.
Costello was in
there
sitting
at
his
desk, that's
m to
right
him
behind Mr. Blake's
know what
desk, and
there
was
also somebody
else
situa�ion?
in the room, but
I
can't recall
who
it
Q
Then t�e
testimon�
of Mr. Encarnacion
and
Mr.
Blake
that there
was no one else
present
is incorrect�
A
Well, there
was o�her
people present.
Q
And the
testimony of
Mr. Blake
and Mr. Encarnacion
that
the
doors was
. . . were
closed is incorrect?
A
Well, the
two outside
doors was
. . . were
closed.
The
sliding
door
was not closed.
Q
Now is
it not true
on that date
that Mr.
Blake
advised
you
to keep
in touch
with him to
keep infored,
m to
call
him
to let him
know what
was going on
with your
surgery,
your medical
situa�ion?
A
I was told
to keep
him advised,
but I was
not told
on a
daily
basis.
In other words,
he said
I was to
go home
l
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3
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until
I got everything resolved.
Q And
was this the
same day,
now, you discussed
the
pre-op procedure
on the 23rd
and
the surgery on
the 28th?
A Yes,
sir, the 16th
when
I was . . . went
home.
Q Do
I understand
your previous
testimony
that Mr.
Blake
said you
go home for
. . .
because you're
having an-
Operation, pre-operative
and
you
keep me informed?
MS.
MADDEN: Counsel,
I
object to you
restating
Mr. Ripley's
testimony.
He's
testified just
prior to
that to
what he said,
or what
was said to
him.
MR.
GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
I don't believe
that Mr.
Ripley's
response was
entirely
responsive
to my
question
and I'm just
trying
to understand
what his
answer to
me was.
MR.
DARBY: We didn't
hear
the objection.
MS.
MADDEN: My
objection
-- My objection
was to
the fact
that counsel
was misstating
Mr. Ripley's
prior
response
in which Mr.
Ripley
testified to
what was said
to him and
I objected
to counsel
misstating
Mr.
Ripley's
Ripley.
response in
formulating
a question
to Mr.
MR.
GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
again, I'm just
trying to
understand his answer.
Let
me back up,
I'll try
to break it
down.
MR.
DARBY: Okay.
Back
up.
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BY MR. GRAY:
Q
You advised
Mr. Blake
and Mr' Encarnacion
t�at yoo
were
ill
on the
16th?
A
Yes.
Q
That you could not
perform
light
duty; is
that
correct?
A
That's
correct.
O
And am
I correct that
you ir'formed
Mr. Blake
and
Mr.
Encarnacior
you had pre-operative
�rocedures
scheduled
for
March
23r�?
A
Q
Yes.
Am I co rrect you advised
k
Mr. Blae
an Mr.
d
Encarnacion
that
you had surgery
scheduled
for the
28th?
A
Yes.
Q
Am I correct
that you
were �ermitted
to go
home
and
to stay
home
based upon those
facts presented?
A
Yes.
Q
Okay.
Mr. Ripley,
did
you make any
contact
with
Mr'
Encarnacion,
Mr' Blake or
any
ot�er persons
in
an
official
capacity
with the City
of Sanford
between
March 16,
1990
and
March 23rd,
1990?
A
No, I
did not.
Q
What is
the next contact
you had
with Mr.
Blake or
Mr.
Encarnacion?
A
I went
to City Hall
to
pick up my
check on the
E r- -I
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8
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23rd, from Mr.
Blake.
Q
Do
you recall
what time
of day
or night
that was?
A
It
was approximately
about
ten
o'clock
in the
morning,
maybe
nine thirty.
Q
Did
you have
a conversation
with
Mr. Blake
that
morning?
A
Yes,
I did.
O
And
what was
that conversation?
A
He
asked me
if I was still
scheduled
for
blood
work and
surgery,
I said
I was scheduled
for blood
work and
a second
opinior.
That's
all that
was said.
Q
And
you picked
up your paycheck,
as I understand?
A
Q
Yes,
Is
sir.
that the
only conversation
that you
had had
with Mr.
Blake
or Mr.
Encarnacion
since
March the
16th of
1990?
A
Yes,
it is.
MR.
GRAY:
May I have a
moment,
Mr. Chairman.
MR.
DARBY:
Yes,,
Q
Mr.
Ripley,
let me refer
your
attention
to page
eight, line one,
of the
deposition
that
was taken
of you on
May the
7th of
this year.
Do you
recall
having sat
for that
deposition?
A
Yes,
sir, I
do,
Q
Let
me ask
you, if you would,
please, sir,
to take
2
0
0
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3
4
5
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8
9
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23
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24 �
25 �
a look at page eight.
MR. GRAY: Ms. Madden, I'm going to start on line
twenty-three and ask him to read the remainder of page
eight through the top of nine, page nine, line seven.
A How far you want me to read?
MR. DARBY: Would you speak into the microphone.
A I asked him how far he wanted me to read.
Q Line seven.
A Okay.
Q Now, Mr. Ripley, let me ask, has reading that.
helped to refresh your recollection?
A Refresh it to what?
Q How many times did you speak with Mr. Blake
between March the 16th of 1990 and March 23rd, 1990?
A The phone and in person, which is the same day,
which is the 23rd.
Q So you called him on the 23rdr
A Yes.
Q And then you talked to him on the 23rd7'
A And I came in, yes, sir.
Q So your previous testimony was incorrect, that you
only talked to him on the one time?
A I was stating the same day.
Q Okay. Thank you. I appreciate you clarifying
that.
49
l
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3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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15
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17
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20
21
22
23
24
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pTr7 M1
���
M
.==, =^. .
Q
Okay. Let me
ask
you,
Mr. Ripley,
do recall
you
the 23rd
of March?
A
Yes, sir, I
do.
Q
Do you recall
it
clearly?
A
Yes,
Q
What time did
you
get
up that morning?
A
It was probably
about
-- I take my
wife to work,
usually,
I didn't that
morning,
about
six thirty,
probably
quarter
to seven.
O
You did not
take
your
wife to work?
A
Not that morning,
no.
Q
What did you
do
that morning?
A
I got up, sat
around
the
house, my
mother and
father
come out to pick
me
up to
go pick up
my van.
Q
Did you go pick
up your
van?
A
Yes, after calling
City
Hall to talk
to Mr. Blake
on the
phone, yes, sir,
I
did, to
come get my
check.
L r
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2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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15
16
17
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22
23
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25 |
Q
Where did
you
call
Mr. Blake from?
A
My mother's
home.
Q
How did you
get
to
your mother's
home?
A
I told you,
my
mother
came and
got
me.
My mother
and
father
came and
got
me.
Q
Came and got
you and
then took
you
to
their
house
and
then
you went to
get
your
van?
A
Went and got
my van
and went back
to my
mother's
house,
that's what I
did.
Q
So your mother
didn't
take you
to
her
house,
she
took
you
to the van
and
then
you went to
her
house?
A
No. I first
I went
to her house,
went
to
get my
van
and
came back to
my
mother's
house.
Q
When did you
first
make the call?
A
The first
time
[ was
there, to
see
if
I
could pick
my
check
Ap early.
Q
to
Thank you.
I
I
want
to make it very
clear,
I want
make
sure understand.
When you saw
Mr. Blake
that morning
at
nine
to
nine
thirty,
nine thirty
I think
was your
testimony,
you
said,
"I'm
A
scheduled
Yes, sir.
for
pre-op
and a second
opinion"r
Q
Okay. Thank
After you
left
you.:
City
Hall that morning
of
the 23rd,
where did
yoc go?
0
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3
4
5
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8
9
10
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13
14
15
16
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22 �
23
24
25 �
A
Back to
my mother's house, after
cashing my creck.
Q
Did you
have any conversations with
anyone
regarding
your medical
procedure while you
were at your
mother's
house--'
A
Yes, from
the attorney's office.
Q
Whom did
you speak with, sir?
A
The secretary;
Cheryle.
Q
And what
was your conversation with
Cheryle?
A
That m/
blood work and surgery was
to be cancelled
and I have
a schedule
for a second opinion.
Q
Your blood
work and your surgery
was cancelled?
A
Right.
Q
And you
had a second opinion�
A
That they
were scheduling me for
a second opinion.
Q
And that
was your . . . in your discussion
with
� 0
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Q
Have you had
an
opportunity
to review the
transcription
of that
heari`g,
the
copy was
provided to your
attorney.
A
No, I haven't.
Q
You haven't
had
a chance.
Okay.
MR. GRAY: Mr.
Chairman,
may I take
a moment anH
give
him a copy to
review?
MR. DARBy:
Yes,
sir.
MR. GRAY: It's
ncL that
long.
Q
I think, if
T could,
if
I might
shorten the
matter, you
could just
initially
turn over
to page two. And
in the left-hand
A
column,
Yes,
you'll
see Ripley.
Q
sir.
And read your
statements
there,
please.
Are you ready,
Mr. Ripley?
A
Q
Yes,
After having
read
that,
do you have
an opinion as
to whether
or not this
accurately
reflects
the statements
that you made
on that
date?
A
Could you repeat
that
again?
O
After having
had
an opportunity
to review this
transcription
--
MS. MADDEN:
Counsel,
I'm sorry,
I believe he
only
read page two;
is that
the page
you're referring
to?
0
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3
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25 �
--1
MR. GRAY:
Thank you.
I will rephrase my
Question.
Q
After having
had an opportunity
to
read what is
purported
to be your
remarks on
page
two, do
you have ar
opinion as
to whether
or not this
accurately
reflects what
you sai d on that date?
A
Yes, this is
what I said,
Yes.
Q
Okay. When
you went
to your
mother's
house, you
a call
from whomr
got
A
The Fisher
law firm.
Q
And who was
it?
A
Chervle. I
don't know
her
last name.
Q
All right.
Now, in the
transcription
you have
just provided
. . . or
you �ust
read,
about --
Let me show
you where
I'm referring
to.
MS. MADDEN:
Uh-huh.
That's
fine.
Q
I'm going to
read a sentence
to you
and ask you tc
. . . or ask
you a question
about
it,
please"
Mr. Ripley.
A
Q
Okay.
The only thing
I was
going
for was
blood work on
that Friday
morning,
comma, but
he said
he had
cancelled the
operation.
Were you
referring
to your
lawyer
there?
A
Secretary.
Q
Is it
a male
secretary?
A
Yes, sir'
--1
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Q What is the male secretary's name?
A I mear, excuse me, female.
Q Female.
A Yes. I'm sorry.
Q k! ell, who is "he"?
A I used my lawyer, you know, that law firm. I
refer it to him. He's the lawyer.
Q Am I correct that on the 3rd you made the
statement before the predisciplinary hearing April 3rd that
your lawyer had cancelled the hearing? He cancelled, excuse
me, the operation?
A I was rsferring at . . . of the law firn, like I
said.
Q You learned that you were having a second opinion,
as opposed to an operation, after you spoke with Mr. Blake
on the 23rdr
A Yes.
Q What time did the telephone call come in; do you
have a recollection?
A It was after, about a little after ten.
Q A little after ten.
Mr. Ripley, can you tell me how it is that you
told Mr. Blake at nine thirty in the morning that you were
scheduled for blood work and a second opinicn, when you
didn't learn that you had a second opinion scheduled until
IrLI
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ten
or
ten
thirty'.*
A
Yes,
becaise
I was going to
go for a second
opinion
on
my
own.
Q
Had
you, on
your own, scheduled
a second opinion?
A
No,
I hadn't.
Q
Did
you advise Mr. Blake at
nine thirty "I
personally
have
decided not to have an
operation, I
personally
have
decided
to have a second
ooinion"?
A
I didn't
say
it like that,
no, I didn't.
Q
Had
you requested your law
firm to set up a second
opinion,
as
opposed
to
an operation?
A
Yes,
sir.
Q
Okay.
And had
they advised
you at any time prior
to
ten
thirty
on March
the 23rd that
you had a second
cpinion
and
therefore
ycur operation
was cancelled?
A
No,
but they
were going to
get me a second
0
)
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5
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9
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one, but I didn't know when it was going to be.
Q When did they tell you that they were setting qp
A It was prior to the 23rd, I can't remember the
date.
Q Page
eighteen, line
twenty.
Mr'
Ripley, let me
draw your attention
to the
transcription
of the deposition
taken on May
the 7th, and,
in particular.
I'm referring
to page eighteer,
line twenty.
Would read
that,
sir, through the
end of the
you
please,
page?
Now,
Mr. Ripley, is
it not correct,
sir, that
the
first time you
knew of a second opinion being
scheduled
for
ycu was after
you had talked
with Johnnie Blake
at nine
thirty on the
morning of the
23rd?
MS.
MADDEN: I object
to counsel's
question
because he's
misstating
both the deposition
testimony
and Mr. Ripley's
previous
testimony at the
hearing,
in
that the
deposition states
that he was first
notified
of a specific
doctor on
that date, it does
not
reference
whether he was
informed that he
would have
a
second opinion
with someone
--
MR.
DARBY: Will you
repeat the Question
to which
she's objecting"
MR.
GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
I'd ask it
be read back
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opinion coming.
A
I knew l
was
going to
go
for one.
Q
How is it,
sir, that
you
knew
that?
A
Because
the
law firm
was
going
to set
me up one.
Q
Did you
speak
to your
lawyer
about
that?
A
Just to
the
secretary.
Q
Well, my
question
w,
did
you speak
to the lawyer?
A
No, sir,
I
did non.
Q
Am I
then, sir,
that
told
the
correct,
you
secretary,
"Let's
check
into a
second
opinion"?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
And did
the
law firm
ever
call
back and say,
you
"Yes, sir,
you've
got
a second
opinion"
prior
to ten or ten
thirty on
March 23rd,
1990?
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A No. That's when I was told, on the 23rd, that I
had a second opinion.
Q Okay. After you spoke to Johnnie Blake?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Did you have any conversations with anyone
at the law firm between February, I think when you first
went there, and March the 23rd, regarding second opinion?
A Yes, I called them a couple times. Yes, I had.
Q And what was the substance of those conversations?
A I believe I called twice, just to see if it had
been set up yet, and it hadn't been set up.
Q And it never had been set up?
A Not yet, no.
Q Any of those phone calls between March the 16th of
1990 and February 23rd, 1990?
A There Nas -- I don't remember really dates that I
called them, No, I don't remember that.
Q Well, let me ask you this: Do you recall
discussing a second opinion with your lawyer's firm prior to
leaving work on February . . . or March the 16th?
A It was after that.
Q It was after that that you discussed second
opinion?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, Mr. Ripley, you read just a moment ago the
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absence
policy here
in the
Handbook.
A
Yes, sir.
Q
What was
the approved
explanation
for which yo_i
were
sent
home on March
the
16th?
A
I was told
I could
go home
and stay
off until I
everything
resolved.
got
Q
And did you
advise
Mr.
Blake and Mr.
Encarnacion
that
one
of those things
was
a pre-operative
procedure and
the
up for
the 23rd
and 28th of
another
was surgery
set
March?
A
Repeat that
again?
MR. GRAY:
Would
you read
it back?
(Question
read by
Reporter.)
A
Yes, that
was on
the 16th.
Q
Would yzu
agree with
me,
sir, that
the explanation
which
was approved
was the
pre-op
and the surgery?
A
Well, like
I say,
l stated
that I
was told to g�
home
until
I got everything
resolved.
Q
And were
Khose things
that
you had
to get resolvel
were
your
pre-operative
procedure
and your surgery?
A
Yes.
Q
And Mr. Blake
and
Mr. Encarnacion
approved that
explanation?
A
Mr. Blake
did. He
was
the one who
told me I could
go home.
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Q And you provided him written documentation Lo
prove that you had those two things scheduled?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that circumstance changed, didn't it?
A Yes, it did.
Q And it changed on March the 23rd?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when did you advise the City t�at you weren't
having the pre-op and you weren't having the surgery?
A I didn't. I was under the impression that the law
firm was going to do it.
Q Mr. Ripley, had the law firm ever made any
contacts with the City to do your call in for you in the
past?
A Not that I know of.
Q Whose obligation is it to call in and advise �hen
you're going to be absent more than twenty-four hours?
A It depends on the time. Sometimes he told you I
ain't got to cal] him, next time you got to call in.
Q You call jn?
A I've called in, my mother's called in. I've had
my wife call in before.
Q Mr. Ripley, at ten thirty on March 23rd, you found
out that there would be no pre-op, no surgery?
A Yes.
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Q
that out?
And
you were at your
mother's
house when
you
found
A
Yes.
Q
And
she had a telephone?
A
Yes,
sir, she does.
Q
You
didn't call the
City that
day?
A
No,
sir, I didn't.
Q
And
you didn't call
the next
day, or
the next
day,
or the next
day;
is that correct?
A
No,
not after I picked
up my
check on
the 23rd
and
had a discussion
that, no.
with Johnnie
Blake, no,
I didn't
call
after
MR. GRAY: Nothing further.
CROSS EXAMINATION
rA71
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Q
What
was your
understanding
of
the procedures
vou
were to
follow
as far as
reporting
in
and
the frequency
cf
that reporting
in when you
last
were
at
work on March 16th
and allowed
to
go home?
A
I was
informed
to keep
them
informed
what was
going on
on every
Friday
when I
picked
up my check.
Q
Were
you told
that day
to call
them every day?
A
No,
I was not.
Q
Were
you told
on that
day to
call them every
day
or you would
be
fired?
A
No,
I was not.
Q
Did
you call in
on March
17th?
A
No,
I did not.
Q
Did
you call in
on any
day
until
March 23rd,
from
the time
of March
16th?
A
Q
No,
Did
anyone call
from
the
City to tell you
that
you
you should
have
been calling
in
daily?
A
Q
No.
So it
was your
understanding
the procedure that
you were
following
was correct,
that
you
would talk to
them
on the Friday
when you picked
up
your
paycheck;
is that
correct?
A
That's
ccrrect.
Q
You
were scheduled
for
surgery
with Dr. Fonsea.
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Had
he
operated
on you
previously?
A
No,
he had not.
Q
When
you asked
for -- Why were you
seeking a
second
opinion?
A
Because
I'd
been operated on a few
times and when
I went
to his
office he
didn't even take no
x-rays or
nothing,
he
was just going
to cut it open.
Q
Was
it your
concern to determine
whether second
surgery
A
was
To
actually necessarf?
see if they
needed to take a nerve
from my leg
to put
in my
hand, yes.
Q
Was
it your
assumption that some
form of surgery
would
be necessary?
A
Yes.
O
Your
concern
was the type of surgeryj
is that
correct?
A
Yes,
it was.
CO
!Have
you since
gotten a second opinion?
A
Yes,
I have.
Q
What
was the
date of that second
opinion?
A
It
was March
28th.
Q
What
time of
the day did you -- Strike that.
How
-- Who did
you see for that second opinion?
A
Dr.
Toby.
Q
What
was the
result of Dr. Toby's
examination;
Ell
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what
did
he recommend for you?
A
He recommended
that tne tendon
needed to
be �laced
against
the
bone again,
but the nerve
did
not need
to be
messed with
unless
he opened it up
seeing
that it
was tore
apart,
but
I did have
some feeling,
so he
didn't
see how he
needed
to
take a nerve
from my leg
to put
in the
hand.
Q
So it's
your testimony he
recommended
a
different
type
of surgery
than
Dr. 7onsea?
A
Yes.
Q
Are you
planning to have
that surgery
done?
A
Hopefully,
yes.
Q
Is there
delay in that
surgery?
a
A
Yes.
Q
Do you know
why there's a
delay
in that
surgery?
A
I don't
have the money to
pay for
it.
Q
Is it your
understanding
Workers'
Compersation
has
not yet
authorized
that surgery?
A
Evidently
it hasn't.
Q
When you
saw Dr, Toty, what
time
of day
did you
leave
his
office on
the 28th?
A
It was approximately
about
four
thirty,
quarter to
Q Did you call anyone at that time to tell them of
his . . . the results of his examination and his
recommendations?
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A
No.
Q
Why did
you not call at
that
time?
A
It was too
late to call
anybody.
Q
Why did
you not call on
March
29th?
A
I had planned
on it when my wife
come home
fro�
lunch
with
my van,
to come in to
let them
know what
was
going
on,
but they
came to my house
before
I had a
chance to
go
there.
Q
Did you
call your attorney's
office on March
28th
after
you
A
saw Dr.
Yes, I called
Toby?
the lawyer's office.
Q
After you
saw Dr. Toby
on March
28th, is
the time
I'm
asking
you about.
A
Q
Yes. Yes.
Did you
talk to anyone
at your
attorney's
office
after
you
saw Dr.
Toby on March 28th?
A
Yes. I
believe I talked
to the
secretary
and told
her
that
there was
a different type
surgery
needed
to be
done,
that
Dr. Toby
was going to
get with
the lawyer.
Q
Okay. Did
you talk to
anyone
in the City
that
ED
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under the shade trees.
Q Were you still taking your medication at that
ill?
A
No,
I stopped
-- I
ran out of it and
I just never
called to
get
no more.
hand is
injured?
Q
You
say you
were walking
behind a self-propelled
you were
lawn mower?
the lawn mower, what
A
Q
Yes.
Did
that law
mower
require any effort
on your part
with your
hand
to operate
it?
A
No.
I just
hold it
with one hand and
walk behind
it.
Q Which
hand did
you use with
your lawn mower?
Al My
left hand.
Q Which
hand is
injured?
A My
right hand.
Q When
you were
walking behind
the lawn mower, what
type of lawn
mower is it?
A It's
a Ward's,
twenty-two inch
self-propelled
mower.
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Q Is it
gas, electric, or
Have
what
type?
heavy work with your hand
A It's
gasoline.
since
March
16th�
Q Who
had started the lawn
mower
for you
that day?
A Sam
Williams, a friend
of
mine.
Q Had
you done any work
around
McCauley
your house
on March
29th, other than
walking behind
the
self-propelled
ask
lawn
why
you had not called the City?
A
Yes,
mower?
had.
Q
Have
you
done any
heavy work with your hand
at
home
since
March
16th�
A
No,
I haven't.
Q
When
Mr.
McCauley
and Mr. Blake arrived at
your
home,
did
they
ask
you
why
you had not called the City?
A
Yes,
they
had.
Q
What
did
you
tell
them?
A
I told
them
that
I was under the impression
that
the
law
firm,
the
lawyer's
office . . . that he was
going to
have
taken
care
of
it.
Q
Did
you
tell
them
on that day the results,
tha�
you
had
seen a
doctor
for a
second opinion?
A
I believe
I
did,
yes.
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Q On that day did they ask if your hand was hurting"'.,
A No.
Q Was your hand bothering you on March 29th7
A It hurts all the time.
MS. MADDEN: I have no further questions at this
point, but reserve the right to call Mr. Ripley as my
witness in my case in chief.
MR. DARBY: Okay.
MR. GRAY: Just a couple, Mr. Chairman, if I may?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BV MR. GRAY-
0 Mr. Ripley, you testified on previous occasions
ycu had been approved to stay home from work; is that
correct? Is that right?
A Yes.
Q On any of those occasions in the past, did the
reason that yon were permitted to stay home at any time
changed?
A Repeat that, please.
Q Yes, sir, I will.
On any of those previous occasions, did the reason
or the approved explanation why you were allowed to go home
change?
A No. If I had a doctor's excuse, usually that's
how long you stayed off and you never had to call or
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nothing.
I have.
Q Have
Q
But the reason
Mr.
for
you
being excused
didn't :hang,----
on those
circumstances
.
. .
on
those --
get his
A
No, sir.
A Telephone
book. On
the
standby
Q
-- times,
did
it?
Mr. Encarnacion
at home?
A No,
I have
not. No.
Q Do you
A
No.
calling
Mr. Blake at home7
A No.
Q
Okay. You've
indicated
MR.
that you
really weren't
sure what
the policy
was;
is
that
right?
EXAMINATION
A
Yes.
Q
All right.
But
you
did
read that
letter dated May
11th that
I showed
you a
minute
ago, did you
not?
A
Yes, I did.
Q
And you had
read
your
Personnel
manual, had you
A Yes,
I have.
Q Have
you ever
call
Mr.
Blake at
home?
A I think
I
have, yes.
Q How
did you
get his
phone number?
A Telephone
book. On
the
standby
sheet.
Q Did
you ever
call
Mr. Encarnacion
at home?
A No,
I have
not. No.
Q Do you
have
any trouble
calling
Mr. Blake at home7
A No.
MR.
GRAY:
Thank you,
sir.
RECROSS
EXAMINATION
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were sent
home
on March
16th, as to how
long you
were tc be
out?
A
I was
to be
out until
everything
was resol/ed.
Q
And,
in your opinion,
what did
that "everything
to
be resolved"
mean"'
A
Until
MS.
I got
MADDEN:
my thumb
No further
taken care
questions.
of.
MR.
GRAY:
Nothing further,
Mr.
Chairman.
MR.
DARBY:
Any questions
from
the Board?
MR.
GREENE:
Do you want
to ask
him now
or do you
want
to
wait until
her case
is over
with. You
know,
YOU
may
want to
ask some questions
that she
may answer-
in her
case.
Whatever
y'all
want to
do.
MR.
DARBY:
Before we
dismiss
a witness,
we open
for
questions
from
the Board.
MR.
SREENE:
Okayt,
MR.
DARBY:
If there
are further
questions
from
either
appellant
or City,
we'll permit
it.
MR.
GREENE:
I've got
some questions,
t5en.
Mr.
Ripley,
the second
opinior
ny Dr. Toby
that
you've
testified
that you
went to his
office
on the
28th
of
March, --
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR.
GREENE:
-- who made
that
appointment?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Mr. Fisher's
office.
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MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
Do
you
know when they nade
that
appointment?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I don't
know
when
they made
it, no'
MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
How
did
find out
that you
you
were
supposed
to go
to Dr.
Toby's
office
on the
28th of
March?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I was
called
by the
attorney's
office.
MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
And
do
you
remember
when you
were
called
or when you
were
given
the message?
MR.
RIPLEY:
That
I think
it --
I'm not
was,
was
for
sure
on the date,
no.
MR.
GREENE:
Was it
the
23rd,
the same day
you
were
told
that the
other
. .
.
the
pre-op and
the
surgery
was cancelled?
MR.
RIpLEY:
Yes, I
believe
it
was.
MR.
GREENE:
The same
day?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR.
SREENE:
Now you've
indicated
that at
ten
thirty
when
you got
this
call
from
your attorney's
office,
that they
told you
the
pre-op
and the
surgery
was
cancelled.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Uh-huh.
MR.
GREENE:
It's
testimony
that the
second
your
opinion
was schedcled
with
Dr.
Toby,
--
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MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
-- which
you went
to.
MR.
RIPLEy:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
Now
do you know why
your
attorney's
office did
not call
the
lab and tell
them you
were not
going to
be there
at eleven
o'clock,
I believe
it is?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Eleven
forty-five.
MR,
GREENE:
Whatever
it was?
MR.
RIPLEY:
No,
sir, I don't know
why
they didn't
call them,
no.
MR,
GREENE:
Okay.
And do you
know why
they
didn't call
the other
doctor who was
scheduled
. . .
who had you
scheduled
for surgery on
the 29th-
MR.
RIPLEY:
No,
sir, I don't.
MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
But you assumed
that
your
attorney
was also
going
to call the
lab and
the other
doctor, since
they
told
you it was cancelled?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
Now
on the second
opinion
that you've
discussed,
is it
your
testimony that
when you
talked to
Mr. Blake
on the
23rd
that you told
him that
you were
scheduled
for the
lab
work that day?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
MR,
GREENE:
RIPLEy:
And
Yes.
a second opinion7
0
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25
MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
Now, when
you
say secold
opinion,
is this
something
you had
decided
in your
cwn
mind that
you were
going
to get a
second
opinion?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE;
Before
you went
to
the surgery
'
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
And
that's why
you
told him that?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR,
GREENE:
Okay.
But you
did
not know about a .
. . obviously,
about
a
second opinion?
MR.
RIPLEY:
No,
sir, I did
nor.
MR.
GREENE:
Because
one had
not
been scheduled.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Not
at that time,
one
had not
been
scheduled.
MR.
GREENE:
Now
also testified
that
were
you
you
going to
contact
the City
on the
29th
when your
wife
came home
with the
van
--
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
-- to
tell them
about
Dr' Toby's
second opinion.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
But
you were unable
to do that
because
Mr. Blake and
Mr. McCauley
came
out to
your
house before
then.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
0
l
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3
4
5
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8
v
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12
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lb
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20
21
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24
25
MR.
GREENE:
When was
the
next time
that you
were
supposed
to pick
up a paycheck?
The 30th?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR.
GREENE;
Okay.
Ard if
you had
not contacted
them
the 29th,
have
then
to
on
would you
said
something
them on
the 300h
when you
picked
up your
paycheck?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, but
I had
planned
on talking
to
them on
the 29th,
MR.
GREENE:
29rh.
Okay.
And
the 23rd
was also
on
a Friday?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR.
GREENE:
And the
16th
Friday?
was also
on a
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR.
GREENE:
Are you
aware
or do you
contend
that
there is
any bias
or ill
will
toward you
by any
of
your
supervisors?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Would you
explain
that
a little
bit
better,
please.
MR.
GREENE:
Well, do
feel that
has
you
someone
something
against
you or
does
not like you
that
could
cause them
to recommend
your
termination
in this
case?
MR.
RIPLEY:
You want
my
opinion?
MR.
GREENE:
Yes, that's
what I'm asking.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, I
have
the feeling.
MR.
GREENE:
What is
the
basis for
that?
0
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25
MR.RIPLEY:
Well, just
one
time when we
was handed
a check
one time
for a back
pay
and stuff where
ttey
had
lost time cards
and
stuff,
I
kind of had
the
impression
I was
told we
didn't
deserve them,
but the�
had
to give them
to us anyway,
you
know, and
things go
like
that. And
then another
case
come up where
some
away
with
stuff
and
others can't.
people
can get
There's
difference
of feelings,
in my opinion.
MR. GREENE:
Anything
else
specifically
that you
feelings
that
have
that
can
tell me about
any
you
you're
being terminated
for
some
other reason
other
than
what we've
heard today?
MR. RIPLEY:
No,
MR. GREENE:
I have
nothing
further.
MR. DARBY:
Do you
have
any?
MR. RUFAS:
Bobby,
--
MR. RIPLEY:
Yes, sir.
MR. RUFAS:
-- when
did
you
get hurt?
MR. RIPLEY:
When did
I
get
hurt?
MR.RUFAS:
Yeah.
MR. RIPLEY:
First
time
or
second time?
MR. RUFAS:
All this
leading
up to the
same thing?
MR. RIPLEY:
Well,
I re-injured
my hand
on
December 6, 1989.
MR. RUFAS:
This is
the
one
with the bad
nerve?
l
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3
4
5
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8
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17
18
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21
22
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MR.
RIPLEY!
Probably
two,
three
months,
yes, sir.
MR.
RUFAS:
And
were
how
many
months?
you
out
MR.
RIPLEY:
Excuse
me?
MR.
RUFAQ
How long
were
you
out
then?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I was
out quite
a while.
MR.
RUFAS:
How many
months?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I'm
not sure.
I'm
really
not
sure.
MR.
RUFAS:
Do you
know,
Tim?
MR.
McCAULEY:
No,
sir, I
don't.
Not
off
the top
of my head.
MR.
RUFAS:
The question
I have
is the
same
thing.
You have
bias
about this
thing
or
not?
If
he
had a
hard time
getting
service
or getting
his hand
fixed or
anything
the other
way.
You
missed
a lot
of time
from
work
--
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes.
MR.
RUFAS:
-- because
of
your
hand.
THE
CLERK:
Could
you speak
into
the microphone?
MR.
R1
Yes,
where is
the
mike?
Only
thing
I want
to establish
is,
is
the
fact
maybe you
get
bitter against
the
City,
maybe
you
did
,
Ell
9
)
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3
4
5
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8
9
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25
this on
purpose,
maybe you didn't,
to
bring it to
a
head or
not. Do
you understand what
I'm saying?
MR.
RIPLEY:
To tell you the
truth,
I
got
nine-and-a-half
years
in here, I
don't
want
to lose
it.
I have no
--
MR.
RUFAS:
A lot of vested
time,
is
what I'm
concerned
MR.
about.
RIPLEY:
Excuse me?
MR.
RUFAS:
That's a lot of
vested
time.
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes, sir, a lot
of
vested
time.
And
I hate to
lose it.
MR.
RUFAS:
Don't you think
you
could
have
come to
work or
MR.
called in
RIPLEY:
more often?
Well, I wasn't
told
to,
that's
why I
didn't do
it.
MR.
RUFAS:
You keep saying
this,
but
what
you're
saying today
they
told you to call
in
when
when
it was
resolved.
MR.
RIPLEY:
When I got everything
resolved.
MR.
RUFAS:
Yes.
MR.
RIPLEY:
I was under the
opinion
the law
firm
called and
that's
why I didn't.
I was
going
to
call in
every Friday,
MR.
RUFAS:
You think you have
free
gratis
until
they got
through
with your hand,
you
didn't
have
to
0
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call in or nothing?
MR. RIPLEY: Yes, sir, that's what I was told to
MR. RUFAS: No further questions.
MR. DARBY: Questions?
MR. McQUATTERS: Yes.
Mr. Ripley, March 16th
is a Friday,
and
that was
the
day that you went home
from work
dizzy; do
I have
that
right?
MR. RIPLEY: Yes, sir.
MR. McOUATTERS: Okay.
And then
the next
week,
March
23rd, that was a Friday,
that's
the date
�ou
picked
up your paycheck.
MR. RIPLEY: Yes, sir.
MR. McQUATTERS: And
then the
next
Wednesday
vas
the
28th, those three days
there.
During
that
time
that
Friday, the next five
days and
then
the
following
three
days, did you have occasion
to
talk to
your law
Ti-m
at all during that period
of
time?
MR. RIPLEY: Yes, I talked
to
them.
I frequently
called
them on the phone,
yes, I did.
MR. McQUATTERS: So from
the
time,
just
so I'm
understanding,
from the time
you were
dizzy and
wen�
home
and the next Friday when
you
picked
up your
paycheck
and the next Wednesday
when
you were
finding
9
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4
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6
7
8
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out about the second opinions and
all, you talkeo
to
them several
times, three or
four?
MR.
RIPLEY: About two,
maybe
three.
McQUATTERS: Two,
three times?
MR.
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS: On March
6th,
you had
returned
to
work as
well; is that correct?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS: Okay.
And the
notion
of
wanting
to get a
second opinion, do
you think
that that
was in
your mind
or do you remember
if that
was in
your
mind
as early
as March 6th, when
you came
back?
MR.
RIPLEY: No, sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS: When
do you
think that
--
When
did you
start thinking to yourself,
you know,
I
know I
want to
get a second opinion
about
the surgery;
when
did that
come about?
MR.
RIPLEY: I don't remember
the date.
It
was
right after
I seen Dr. Fonsea.
MR.
McQUATTERS: Okay.
If we
can put that
in
perspective
of the day you
went home dizzy,
was
it-
before that
day or after that
day,
do you think?
MR.
RIPLEYr I believe
it was
before that
day,
because
I brought paperwork
on the
16th. So
before.
MR.
McQUATTERS: So right
after
you saw
the
first
0
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3
4
5
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7
8
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10
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13
14
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16
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doctor you're
thinking
to yourself,
"Well.
I'm goirg
to
get a second
opinion"?
MR.
RIPLEY: I was
thinking
to
myself,
yes.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Who made
the appointment
with
the
first doctor?
MR.
RIPLEY: Ah,
Althea
Parish.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
I don't
know Althea.
Does
she
work with
the City?
MR.
RIPLEY: She's
Utility
Director's
secretary.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
So the
City made
your
first
appointment?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes,
sir.
Yes, sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
I see.
Now,
what I've heard
this
evening,
is
that it
was
your impression
you're
going
to call
the City
every
pa/
day. That's
every Friday;
is
that right?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes,
sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
A minute
ago,
I believe
I
remember
you saying that
the
29th, that's
a Thursday,
the day
that you were
walking
behind
your
lawn mower
and two
of the City employees
came out,
you
were
going
to call
them that day
when your
wife
got home
from
lunch.
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes,
sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
What was
going
to make
you
call
0
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8
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them
earlier
instead of waiting
until the next day,
until
pay
day, and you said
you were going to see then
every
pay
day, how come this
week you were going to
call
in early?
MR.
RIPLEY: Because
I
had went to the doctor the
28th
for
a second opinion
and
I was going to let them
know
what
was going on.
MR.
McQUATTERS: Okay.
So when things change,
then
you
were going to call
your boss and tell them
that
things
changed?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, sir.
MR.
McQUATTERS: So
you
know that when you're
concerned
about your job
that
you keep informed with
your
supervisors
and let
them
know what's going on as
they
change?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes,
MR.
McQUATTERS: We'll
probably chat again later.
Thank
you.
I appreciate
your
answers.
MR.
DARBY: Mr. . .
. Ervin?
MR.
CAVELLARO: Mr.
Ripley,
in years 1986, 19871
1988
and
1990, total
sick
days totaled sixty-four.
your
In 1988 there are twenty-three,
in 1989 there were
twenty-one.
Can you, for
me,
just give me some idea of
what's
happened
with procedure
as far as calling in to
the
City,
to call or have
or what would prompt
you you~
I #
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8
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16
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20
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mother or have your
wife
call
on
some occasions, and
not all or none�
requirement,
why would
you
attempt
MR. RIPLEY:
Well,
like
I said,
I stated that the
policy and the rules
change
for
each
person.
MR.
RIPL�Y: Excuse
me?
I
MR. CAVELLARO:
But
for
you,
did
you interpret the
rules to be that
yoc did
not
need
to
call?
MR. RIPLEY:
Yes.
in?
MR. CAVELLARO:
But
you
stated
earlier that there
were times that you
were
going
to
be
absent, either
your mother or your
wife
would
call.
Okay.
Does
MR. RIPLEY:
Yes.
MR. CAYELLARO:
Why
would
they
do that for you?
MR. RIPLEY:
I call
in ever�
so
often. If I was
going to be off one
day
at a
time,
s�mething
like that,
I would have �yself
call
in or
somebodv
else call for
MR.
CAVELLARO:
But if
it wasn't
an understood
requirement,
why would
you
attempt
to call in or have
somebody
else call in?
MR.
RIPL�Y: Excuse
me?
I
didn't hear.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
If it
wasn't
a requirement as far
as the
Job is concerned,
why
would
you have someone
in?
call
MR.
RIPLEY: Urgent.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Okay.
Does
your lawn mower have a
0
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bagger?
MR.
RIPLEY:
No, sir,
it doesn't.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
What kind
of grass
you
got?
MR,
RIPLEY:
Balia.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
With one
hand --
I can
understand
the self-propelled
mower, having
one
myself,
but
I have
a little
turning
it
with one
hand.
problem
MR.
RIPLEY:
Well, --
MR.
CAVELLARO:
How --
MR.
RIPLEY:
-- it's pretty
easy,
really.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Okay.
You ran out
of your
prescription
for your
medication
on what
date?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I'm not sure
of the
date.
It
was a
be+ore the
29th.
few days
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Three
days, four
days?
MR.
RIPLEY:
About four,
probably,
yes.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
And you
didn't renew
the
prescription
for what
reason?
MR.
RIPLEY:
I just didn't
renew
it. I
didn't
call the
doctor to
get no more.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Was your
hand hurting
you?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Oh, yeah.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
If there's an emergency
at
your
house, how
would .
. . what
means would
you
have
to get
to a telephone
to
call someone, even
if it's
a
911?
72
l
2
3
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7
8
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10
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15
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17
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25
MR.
RIPLEY: Walk.
MR.
CAVELLARO: Where?
MR.
RIPLEY: Pay phone.
MR.
CAVELLARO: How far
is that?
MR.
RIPLEY: Approximately
a mile.
MR.
CAVELLARO: You have
nextdoor neighbors?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, I do.
MR.
CAVELLARO: They have
a telephone?
MR.
RIPLEY: The one --
One does not and the
other
one does,
but they got dogs
and they got a fence
around
the yard,
I've never been up
there.
MR.
CAVELLARO: Thank you.
MR.
DARBY: Any further
questions from the
Board?
Do you
know what -- you
said the medication
made
you dizzy?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, sir,
it did.
MR.
DARBY: What -- Do
you remember what it
was?
MR.
RIPLEY: Yes, sir,
I do, Lora Tab 7, it's
a
narcotic
MR.
drug.
DARBY: You mentioned
that you were mowing
underneath
a shade tree?
MR,
RIPLEY: Yes, that's
all.
MR.
DARBY: Bahia doesn't
grow underneath a
shade
tree very
well.
MR.
RIPLEY: You're more
than welcome to look.
I
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mean, it's
there.
MR.
DARBY:
I don't
have any further
questions.
MR.
RUFAS:
You
don't
know how long you
had
been
hurt, your
hand
hurt?
MR.
RIPLEYg
Since
the
last injury or
the
first?
MR.
RUFAS:
Both
of
them.
MR.
RIPLEY:
It's
been
hurt ever since
it
was
hurt.
MR.
RUFAS:
Ever
since
the first one?
MR.
RIPLEY:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
RUFAS:
Nine
months?
MR.
RIPLEY:
It
eased
up a while and
then
I
repulled
it loose.
MR.
DARBY:
Any
other?
MR.
RUFAS:
No further.
MR.
DARABY:
You're
excused.
Wait
a minute.
Wait
a minute. Wait
a minute.
Ts there
any
other?
MS.
MADDEN:
Not
at
this time.
MR.
GRAY:
No.
MR.
DARBY:
You're
excused.
This
to have
would
be a
good
time, I think, for
a
motion
a
MR.
recess.
McQUATTERS:
Mr.
Chairman, I move
for
five
minute recess.
0
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MR. DARBYg Is there
a
second?
MR. GREENE: Second.
MR. DARBY: All those
in
favor,
say aye.
ALL: Aye,
(Whereupon there was
a
recess.)
MR. DARBY: We'll begin
if the
both
parties
. . .
are ready.
MS. MADDEN: We are
ready,
Your
Honor.
MR. GRAY: Ready, Mr.
Chairman.
MS. MADDEN, Mr. Chairman,
I guess
by Your
Honor,
I hope it's acceptable,
I'm
so accustomed
to having
a
judge sitting there. I'm
sure
that
doesn't offend
you.
MR. DARBY: No, it
doesn't.
But
I can't
hear you
half the time anyways.
MS. MADDEN: I forgot.
I'm sorry.
I'm havirg a hard time
remembering
that this
microphone is not sitting
on
a stand
like everybody
else's, and I apologize
for
that, but
it's a little
difficult to remember that
I've
got
to hold it.
MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman,
that completes
our
case.
MR. DARBY: Do you
have
any more?
MS. MADDEN: Yes.
Mr.
Chairman,
I'm going
to call
one witness slightly out
of
order, because
the
young
lady's here, her mother
is visiting
her for the
first
time in two-and-a-half years,
and I'd
like to
put her
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on
first
and let
her
go.
I'd
like to
call
Ms. Cheryle
Brown.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Mr. Chairman,
could we please ask
that
Ms.
Madden
give
as an overview
of what she intends
to
cover
this evening?
MS.
MADDEN:
Yes,
be happy
to.
MR.
DARBY:
Yes.
MS.
MADDEN:
It
is the
position
of Mr. Ripley,
that
all
though
there
are procedures
in the book that
have
been
read to him,
and tonight,
that state that you
will
call
in every day
when
you're
out
for more than
twenty-four
hours,
that
those
procedures
have been
altered
for him
in the
past
and
were
altered for him
under
this
circumstance,
and
that
he
was given the
understanding
and
did
call in
on
Fridays
to let them
know
of
his status,
that
no
one
advised
him that he was
not
following
the
correct
procedure
on the 23rd when he
called
in
and did
not
call in
between
the 16th and
23rd,
that
he called
in as he
understood
on the 23rd,
and
it is
also our
position
that
he
did have the
understanding
that our
law firm
was
going to call the
City.
We
also will
show
that
Ms.
Brown
does not recall
whether
she told
him
that or
not,
and
we will not stipu
. .
. we
will not
try
to prove
that
she absolutely told
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him that
he was
going
to tell him
that, but
he mEv well
have had
that understanding
from
her. That
he did not
know of
his specific
appointment
with Dr.
Toby until
the 23rd,
that
he had
asked for a
second
opinion pricr
to the 23rd;
on
March
AN he had
asked for
a secord
opinion,
that our
office
had made
that appointment
for
him, he did not make it himself.
doctor was going to do the surgery, but that his
understanding waE from Mr. Blake that he was to stay
off work until the surgery was taken care of.
It is our position that we're going to show, again
as I said, that though the procedures state daily call
in, that not only did Mr. Ripley not call in every day
in the past, and that was accepted, that also that
other employees had not called in every day and that
has been accepted. That, therefore, the written
procedures, as stated, are not followed consistently
under all circumstances and that under the
circumstances under which Mr. Ripley was allowed to go
home on the 16th, that he was understandably operating
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under procedures
that
he thought complied with
Ve
wishes of the
It is our
City.
position
that Mr. Blake did not
tell him
on the 16th to
call
daily.
It is our position
and we
will present testimony
there was another witness
to
Oat conversation,
and
it is our position that
Mr.
Blake does not
recall
clearly what directions
or
instructions he
gave
to
Mr. Ripley. And it's
our
position that,
as
you've
heard earlier, that
Mr.
Encarnacion did
not
hear
any discussion with
Mr.
Ripley
by Mr. Blake that
he should
call daily or that
he would
be fired if he
did
not
follow through on those
proceedings.
So our summary
of
our position is Mr. Ripley
followed the procedures
as he understood and
that,
therefore, he
did
not
knowingly violate the
City's
rules and regulations.
I would call
now
at this time Ms. Cheryle
Brown.
MR. DARBY:
Would
you be sworn in, please.
CHERYLE
BROWN
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MADDEN-
to Would you please state your full name.
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firm?
A I'm no longer with that firm.
Q What was the last day of your employment with that
Q
How do
know
Mr. Ri�ley?
you
A
He was
one of
a hundred or
more clients
of
Mr.
Fisher's
which I
handled.
Q
Were you
Mr. Fisher's
secretary?
4
For about
two
months.
Q
Do you
remember
a conversation
with Mr.
Ripley
on
March 2
-- or, I'm
sorry.
-- during
the week of
March
20th
through
the 21st,
22nd,
23rd?
A
I vaguely
remember
a couple
conversations,
but
vaguely.
0
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Q Do you
recall whether
Mr. Ripley
asked you ebcut
getting
a second
opinion for
his surgery?
A Yes, we
talked about
a second opinion.
Q Vid you
make arrangements
for Mr.
Ripley to get
a
second
opinion?
A I certainly
did.
Q Who did
you arrange
for him to have
an appointment
for
a second opinion
with?
A He wanted
it with
the Jewett Clinic.
The Jewett
Clinic
is in Orange
County and
his injury was
in Seminole.
Consequently,
I called
to find
out who worked
outside of
the
Jewett
Clinic in
Seminole County,
I found out
that Dr.
Toby
did.
I, therefore,
made an
appointment with
him, after
clearing
it.
Q When did
you notify
Mr. Ripley that
he had a
specific
appointment
with Mr.
. . . with Dr.
Toby?
A When I
called the
mother's office
. . . or
mother's
home, excuse
me, when
I called the
mother's home,
I
generally
would leave
a message
for him to
call. Whether
or-
not
I left more than
just for
him to call,
or, call. I
have
the
appointment,
or, I found
a doctor that
works out of
Orange
County, those
things
are very vague
to me as to
dates
and
specific words.
Q Do, you
remember specifically
talking
to Mr. Ri�ley
himself
on March
23rd? I'm
not asking you
do you remember
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the contents
of
the conversation,
but
just
do you
remember
talking
with him?
A
Q
Yes.
Do
remember if
told
him
on that
date that
you
you
he had an
appointment
with Dr.
Toby?
That
would have
been
the last
day
were employed
at Fisher,
Matthews
and
you
Madden.
MR.
GRAY:
Let me object
to
the
form of
the
question.
Leading
the witness.
MS.
MADDEN:
I'll restate
the
question
a
withdraw.
Q
Do you
recall specifically
talking
with
Mr. Ripley
on March
23rd7
A
Q
Yes.
Do you
remember whether
--
Strike
that.
Do you
remember
discussing
with him a
doctor's
appointment?
A
Yes.
O
What
did
you tell him
about
the
doctor's
appointment
on
that
day?
A
What
I
tell him is generally
followed
up
with a
letter,
address,
doctor's name,
time.
Q
Okay.
MS.
MADDEN:
What I'm
showing
counsel
is
letters
written
from
the firm of Fisher.
Matthews
and
Madden,
one
to a
Dr.
Bruce Toby and
one
to Mr.
Ripley,
dated
March
23rd.
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If I may share
that with
the panel.
Q
Ms. Brown,
allow
me to
show you these
letters. Do
the letter
dated
to to
Dr. Toby, dated
you
recognize
. . .
March
23rd?
A
Yes.
Q
How do you
recognize
that letter?
A
I remember
a conversation
with Mr.
Fisher about
it.
And
it does have
my
initials
as having
typed it.
Q
And
those
initials?
what are
A
C.B.,
Q
Where
they
located
the letter?
are
on
A
Right after
the
gentleman
who dictates
the letter.
Q
Who in this
case
was
who?
A
That was James
C. Fisher,
as the
senior partner in
the
law firm
of Fisher,
Matthews
and Madden.
Q
What does
that
letter
state?
A
It advises
Dr.
Toby that
we have
made an
appointment
with him
for
our client
to be examined
March
28th
at one
thirty'
We
enclose
medical records
to date, we
]et
him know
Ripley
to
with any
we're advising
supply
you
x-rays
he
might have
of
any prior
appointments
and we ask
him
we would
appreciate
a report
of his findings,
and
enclosed
a medial release.
Q
Okay. And
what
date
was that letter
typed?
A
That was March
23rd.
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Q
Was that the same day
talked
to Mr.
RWley
you
about
that appointment?
A
Yes.
Q
Let me
show you a second
letter
written
to Mr.
Robert
Ripley.
What date was
that
letter
dated?
A
March
23rd.
Q
How do
you recognize
that
letter?
It
has
A
also
my initials.
Q
And where
are those
initials
located?
A
Fisher.
Right
after the dictator
of the
document,
James C.
Q
Could
you just summarize
the contents
of
that
letter
for us?
A
It's a
basic format
letter
to a
client
informing
him that
we have
gotten them
an opinion
with
another
doctor,
the date,
time,
a phone numoer
in
case they
have
difficulty
locating
the office,
advising
them
to be on
time,
the doctor-
request,
you bring
x-rays.
Q
Was that
-- What date
was
it typed?
A
March
23rd.
Q
Again,
is that the
same
date you
spoke
with Mr.
Ripley
about his
appointment
with
Dr. Toby?
A
Yes.
O
Were
-- Strike
that.
you
Did you
or do you recall
any further
details
of
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time.
BY
MR.
GRAY:
Q
Ms. Brown,
these
two
letters, I
think
you said
the
way
this
occurred
was Mr.
Fisher
dictated,
you
typed
them,
is
that
right?
A
Well, in
all actuality,
we have
a standard
form
letter
when we have
a client
come
in and ask
for
a second
opinion
and/or its
a format
letter,
he told
me
the format,
I
changed
the client's
name,
the
doctor's name.
Q
So he didn't
dictate
these letters.
A
Verbatim
into a
dictaphone,
no.
Q
Well, did
he in
some
way dictate
them?
A
He's always
apprised
and informed
constantly
of
what's
going on, yes.
Q
Do you have
specific
recollection
that
your
took
Mr.
Ripley
March
the
23rd,
conversation
place with
on
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or do you presume that because of the date of these letters?
A Generally the date -- What am I going to say,
ninety-nine point five percent of the time, you know, I make
an appointment, I type the letters, everything goes out the
same date. If you're consistent with things, that's just a
practice.
Q I understand that, Ms. Brown.
A Yes.
Q But my question is, do you, without these letters,
specifically remember that on the 23rd day of March you ha..--.'
this conversation with Mr. Ripley, or is your memory
refreshed or void because you see you typed this letter on
the 23rd, as that's generally what you did?
A It was not a highlight I my life to call a client,
one of a hundred or more, excuse the phrase.
Q Sure.
A But, I would say, yes, I did call the gentleman
the same day I did those letters.
Q Do you have a specific recollection that that was
March the 23rd?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you have specific recollection of your phone
conversation wito Mr. Ripley?
A Not verbatim. I mean, or any . . . Not verbatim.
Q Do you remember the names of any other clients
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that
you
spoke with on March
the
23rd?
A
Ah, . . . Well, not
right
offhand.
Q
But your recollection
is that you
spoke with
Mr.
Ripley,
ycu
made an appointment
for a second
opinion,
and
you typed
these letters and
that's
all you remember
about
the Ripley
matter?
A
l remember having
had
a previous conversation
with
having
found
the doctor, that
he
could still
see someone
with
the
Jewett Clinic, so I
do
recall that
I had had
more
than
one
conversation with the
gentleman.
Q
Do you recall whether
or not that
conversation
you
just
referred
to was in the
month
of February
or March?
A
Well, ah, it was more
than likely
--
Q
Do you remember whether
or not it
was in the
month
of February
or the month of
March?
A
I March.
would say
Q
Do you remember if
it
was on March
the 23rd
or the
20th,
or
the 19th, or the 1st,
or
the 2nd or
any particular
date
in March?
A
I cannot pinpoint
the
date as to the
first
conversation
with regard to
the
Dr. Toby appointment,
no.
Q
Approximately how
many
phone calls
from clients
do
you handle
on a daily basis?
A
It depended. It just
depended on
the day and
the
time
of month.
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Q
Give me
an average day.
That
A
Okay.
An average day, forty
people,
maybe.
would
be
a maximum,
I would think-
9
Forty
clients?
A
I would
say that would be
a maximum.
Q
Then for
each of those forty
client
conferences
would
you
have Lo
make other phone
calls
to schedule
appointments
or
that sort of thing?
A lot
just felt
like
A
No, not
at all. of
clients
they
wanted
to call
in and be reassured
and/or something
or.
another.
Q
So you
only spoke with clients?
A
Excuse
me?
Q
Well,
you talked with clients
on an average
of
forty
times
a day,
I think that was
your
testimony.
A
Eight
plus hour day, that's
not
very many.
Q
Okay.
Did make other
calls to doctor
you
phone
offices,
to court
reporter's offices,
to
the judge's
office?
A
I made
other phone calls,
yes.
Q
So you
made more than forty
phone
calls a day?
A
I picked
up the phone and
conversed
with somebody
more
than
forty
times a day.
MR. GRAY:
Thank you. Nothing
further.
MS. MADDEN:
What I'm showing
counsel is a
memo
from
our file
from Mr. Ripley,
which
I would show
to
is
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the Commission and to Ms. Brown.
This is a memo that I believe which Ms. Brown will
identify that she prepared ir the position of Mr.
Fisher's secretary. You note the date is dated . . .
It's dated March 21st.
MR. DARBY: This was in Mr. Ripley's file?
MS. MADDEN: Yes.
MR. DARBY: That's dated March 21st?
MS. MADDEN: Yes, sir.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Ms. Brown, let me show you this memo and ask do
you recognize or recall that memo?
A I recognize the memo.
Q Do you know who prepared that memo?
Do you recall who prepared that memo?
A I typed this memo to go in file.
Q And whose file did it go in?
A This is a . . . on our client, Robert Ripley.
Q What is the date of this memo?
A March 21.
O Would that have been the date that you typed the
���
A Yes'
Q Would that have been the date that the
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A Oh, I'm sorry. You want me to start at the
beginning here?
Q Go ahead, read the whole paragraph.
A Mr. Ripley called today. He complained of pain
and has been off work since Friday. Tried to go back in on
light duty, swinging a mop . , . a broom and mopping, but
is unable to work due to pain in hand.
The Carrier has scheduled an operation. This
would be Fonsea's third attempt to repair thumb. Operation
date is the 28th of March, seven days from today, with Mr.
Ripley going in hospital one day prior for blood work-up'
U�-]
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Qa7- !T^
Q
And
then is there any further
reference about
a
second
opinion
in that
memo''
A
We nave
claim
and application
for hearing
on the
adjustment
of
A.W.W.
and a second opinion
by Dr. Toby.
MS.
MADDEN:
Thank you.
I have
no
further questions.
MR.
GRAY:
May I see the memo?
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR.
GRAY:
Q
Ms.
Brown,
do you have any recollection
of
the
Mr. Ripley on March the 21st7
phone
conversation
with
A
Q
Just
What
vaguely,
do you
recall about that
phone conversation?
A
I remember
that I had tried to find a doctor
for
him from
the Jewett
Clinic, he generated
the phone call
I,
think,
as the
note says
that he had called.
important
only
to
Things
that
I think are
not
verbally
get across
or to talk with to
the lawyer, I
also
annotate
for
the file.
Q
Let
�e ask
you what something
means here.
You've
got
two short paragraphs
here at the
top.
A
Q
Uh-huh.
That
kind
of recaps the phone
co�versation,
[
suspect?
A A bit.
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Q
Now what
does the
dotted
line
here mean?
A
Nothing
in particular,
really.
Q
Nothing?
A
It's just
a couple
of capsules
of thought
and
then
it's . .
. it's
the same as
going
into a
new paragraph,
except this
is per+inent
to
his salary.
I cannot
especially
say why I
put some
dots there.
Q
Okay.
Now again
tell me
what
you advised
Mr.
Ripley of
on this
date.
A
Well,
he called in
and the
things he
told me
are
annotated
on that
piece of
paper.
Q
okay.
A
And at
that point
I had
not made
a time
and
date,
I had just
located
a doctor.
So I
guess
that was
about
it,
was that
he was
talking to
me and
I thought
it
was necessary
to make a
permanent
note of
having
the conversation.
Q
You hadn't
set up
anything
on
the second
opinion,
you just
A
found a
Exactly.
doctor?
Q
Okay.
MR. GRAY:
Thank you.
That's
it. Thank
you.
MS. MADDEN:
Do you
have
any more
questions
of
MR. GRAY: No further.
MS. MADDEN: I have no further questions of her.
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MR.
DARBY: Does
any
member
of the Board
have
a
question?
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Dne
please.
MR.
DARBY: Okay.
Voluntary
basis.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Ms.
Brown,
who called
who
on
the
23rd7
I
lost track.
Mr.
Ripley
call you
or did
you
call
him
on that Friday,
your
last
day of
work?
MS.
BROWN: Well,
my
best
recollection
is
that
he
called
back.
In honesty,
who
generates
a
phone
call
when
a client
doesn't
have
a
phone,
and like
I
said,
one
of so
many conversations
and
two months
ago,
ah,
who
the call
I
cannot
exactly
say.
generated
MR.
McQUATTERS:
But
we
are
sure of two
calls
in
that
week,
a Wednesday
call
and
a
Friday call.
MS.
BROWN: Uh-huh.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
In
that
same week, or
maybe
the
week
can you recall
other
telephone
prior,
conversations
with Mr.
Ripley,
regardless
of who
made
them?
[ -11
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retained,
MS.
sir.
That's
part of
the
client file.
his average
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Uh-401.
In the
year 1990 or prior
to
1990?
MS.
MS.
BROWN:
You
could ask
Ms.
Madden exactly what
the
date
might
be.
his feeling
he was being paid insufficient
amount
MS.
MADDEN:
He
was retained
--
CAVELLARO: I
Now
I buried
it.
but
you don't . .
. you don't remember
on the
He was
retained
Mr. Ripley
on February
the
26th.
MS.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
happened
February
the
26th.
And
do you
happen
to know
what
the purpose was
for?
MS.
MADDEN: The initial
claim was an adjustment
to his
A.W.W.,
his average
weekly wage.
MR.
CAVELLAR : As
it relates to Workers'
Compensation.
MS.
MADDEN: Yes,
as it relates to Workers'
Comp.
It was
his feeling
he was being paid insufficient
amount
of
his comp rate.
MR.
CAVELLARO: I
think we've al,eady covered
this,
but
you don't . .
. you don't remember
on the
23rd
whether
Mr. Ripley
called in or you called
his
mother?
MS.
BROWN: If I called
and he would have
happened
to have
been
at the house
at that timer or then
he
called
back.
In all honesty,
as I stated, I
don't
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recall who generated that phone call.
MR. CAYELLARO: Okay. Just one question. If I
can direct a question tc Mr. McCauley and then back to
MR.
DARPY: Sure, that's
okay.
MR.
CA�ELLARO: When are
paychecks
available?
MR.
McCAULEY: For Mr.
Ripley?
MR.
CAVELLARO: For someone
to pick
up a paycheck
at City
Hall, when are checks
available?
MR.
McCAULEY: Different
for different
people. In
Mr. Ripley's
case, he's oaid
weekly.
MR.
CAyELLARO: Okay.
And on Friday,
he's paid on
Friday,
what time are checks
availabler
MR.
McCAULEY: Generally
about nine
o'clock in the
morning.
Sometimes earlier,
sometimes
eight
thirty.
MR.
CAVELLARO: Can you
say that
the
letter on the
23rd, the
letter dated on the
23rd to
Mr.
Ripley, was
mailed on the 23rd?
MS.
BROWN: All mail goes
out from
the
law Office
on the same
date that it's typed
ant stamped,
sir.
MR.
CAVELLARO: Okay.
Thank you.
MR.
DARBY: Mr. Greene?
MR.
GREENE: Yeah, I've
got a couple
questions.
Ms.
Brown, when you talked
to Mr.
Ripley
on the
21st of
March, you were aware
that he
had
a pre-op
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appointment on the 23rd
and an
appointment
for sc-�ery
on the 28th7
MS.
BROWN: Yes.
MR.
TREENE: Okay.
When
you
called
him or he
called you
on the 23rd,
we don't
know for
sure what
happened,
did you indicats
to
Mr.
Ripley
that you were
going to
cancel the
pre-op
and
cancel
the
surgery
because of
the second
opinion?
MS.
BROWN: Ah,
that
is the
part of
the
conversation
I honestly
don't
recall.
And
every client
is different,
every
instance,
when
it comes
to how you
handle who's
going to
cancel
the
appointments
and
things of
that nature.
But I
always
did
schedule
second opinions.
So
in
answer
to
your question,
I
don't recall.
MR.
GREENE: Okay.
Would
you
have
told Mr' Ripley
or would
you have, yourself,
cancelled
the
appointment;
what was
the procedure?
MS.
BROWN: There
*as
no
procedure,
as I just
stated.
Each client
was
different.
Maybe
fifty
percent of
them across
the
board
I cancelled,
maybe
fifty percent
the other
fifty
percent
the
clients said
they would
cancel or
already
had
cancelled,
or, you
know, was
just . . .
I can't
say
one way
or the other,
I have no
recollection.
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MR.
GREENE:
Because
in this
the
evidently
case
lab was
not notified
of
the
cancellation
and the
doctor
was not
notified
that there
was no
surgery on the
28th.
MS.
BROWN:
What I
don't
understand
is why
someone
from
the
lab would
not
have
notified
the doctor
that he
had
had his
Did the doctor
not
pre-op
appointment.
think
he
was going
to have
an operation
without
having
a pre-op?
So there
was
obviously
some
lack of
communication
there.
MR.
GREENE:
Okay.
And
indicated
that
the
you
memo
dated
March
21st was
typed
by
you?
MS.
9ROWN:
Yes, I
did.
MR.
GREENE:
And your
testimony
here today
is that
that
was
typed on
March
21st
--
MS.
BROWN:
Yes.
MR.
GREENE:
-- 19907
And the
two letters
which
you typed that
are
dated
the
23rd of
March,
you
indicated
that those
were
typed
by
you on
March 23rd7
MS.
BROWN:
Yes,
sir.
MR.
GREENE:
Your
last
day there?
MS.
BROWN:
Yes, sir.
MP.
GREENE:
Does
this
case have
anything
to do
with
leaving
the law
firm?
you
MS.
RROWN:
Not at
all,
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MR.
I have
GREEN: Okay. Thank you.
rothing further.
MR.
DARBY: Anybody
else?
MR.
McQUATTE99: One
quick
follow-up question,
please, ma'am.
doing
I relate
to what you're
saying
about
something
routinely, such
as always
typing on
the same
day of the
conversation.
always
mailing on the
same day
typing, that
don't
have
to recall specifics,
way you
you just
know that's the
system
and if it's got
that
date on it,
it happened.
So there's
no need for
notes
on things
that are done
by system
such as that.
On the
case though
where every
client is
different
about, like
say cancelling
the
appointment, when
things
are always
different, would
that
not be the time
for
the memo
to the file tc
whose going
to cancel
them?
Could
explain why,
know,
there is this
lack of
you
you
information?
MS.
BR�WN: Certainly.
That's
a small detail.
If
the client
says that they
are going
to cancel
the
appointmer+,
then why make
a note
of it? If I
say I m
to
cancel the appointment,
then that wouldn
t
going
necessarily
have been something
that I would write
in
the file
for permanent
record,
it might just be
a
little
that I
desk I
have
sticky
put
on my
and when
a
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few minutes
I call
up and do it.
MR,
McQUATTERS:
Thank you.
MR.
DARBY:
Ma'am?
MS.
MADDEN:
I would just want
to
provide
this,
too. This
is a copy
of the memo,
and
I would
like to
submit it
as our
exhibit.
And
I would
be happy to submit
copies
of the
letters,
too, but
unfortunately --
MR.
DARGY:
This is the 21st?
MS.
MADDEN:
Yeah, that's the
21st,
can have
y'all
that for
your review.
I'll
be happy
to submit copies
of
the
23rd if
someone
me
a copy back. Unfortunately,
my
gives
secretary
failed
to put a copy of
that
in mv
file. I'd
also like
to submit
those. Also to
counsel.
MR.
DARBY:
I think the City,
we
don't
have copies
of those
letters,
do wer
MS.
MADDEN:
Can we get copies
made
of
these?
I apologize,
it's very unappropriate
and
unprofessional
I
don't have copies,
my
secretary
apparently
forgot
them. I need copies
of these
back,
for
too,
my file,
because they are
our
only
copies.
But I would
like
to submit those to
you.
MR.
DARBY:
Ms. Clerk, could
you
make
those?
THE
CLERK:
Yes. I have to go
upstairs.
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MR.
DARBY:
While
we're waiting, now, Ms.
9rown,
it was --
was --
were
yow under the impression
that Mr.
Ripley would
make
. .
. would cancel the appointments
that he
had; do you
recall?
MS.
BROWN:
I don't
recall an impression
either
way. It's
not part
of
mv recollection, it was
. . .
I'm sorry.
MR.
DARBY:
Thank
you.
MS.
MADDEN:
I have
no further questions
of Ms.
BY MR.
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proceeding why
she was terminated,
since it's
not
related to Mr.
Ripley's case,
as she
stated
earlier'
MR. GRAY:
l'll respond
Mr. Chairman.
I think
it
is relevant because
there has
been
testimony
as to
following procedures,
what is
normally
done.
You're
being asked to
rely upon several
memos
to file
which
were purportedly
prepared by
Ms. Brown
and
the question
of her competence
is certainly
relevant
for
you to
be
able to assess
credibility of
this
witness.
MR. DARBY:
Overruled, you
may
proceed.
MR. GRAY:
Would you read
back
my last
question.
(Question
read by Reporter.)
A I was laid
off.
O Were you given
a reason
for being
laid
off?
A I would like
to state a
couple
sentences
here.
I was with
the law firm
for a
bit over
a year.
I
had asked for a promotion,
having
not been
a personal
secretary to a lawyer.
I had worked
as
a back-up
to the
junior partner. At
any rate, our
senior
partner
had had
a
couple different secretaries
come
and
during
the time
go
that I was there. I
had an opportunity
to ask him,
ouite
having
had less than
one
of
in a
prematurely,
year
practice
law firm and only administrative
positions
before
that,
but
it wasn't a matter of
competency,
it was
a matter
of being
expedient.
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|
For example,
something
that a legal
secretary
might ha"e
done with
eight
or ten years of experience,
had
just done
just like that,
I had to go find examples
of
.... d
and/or things
feeling,
of that
and I understood,
nature.
It was with a
on my termination
very go
on the 23rd.
Q
Ms. Brown,
do I
understand your answer
to be that
you were
not terminated
for
incompetence?
A
Yes, sir.
MR. GRAY:
Page
ten, line fourteen.
MS. MADDEN:
Counsel,
may I ask to
see what you're
showing
Ms. Brown?
MR. GRAY:
Page
ten.
MS. MADDEN:
Of
what, counsel? Of
what?
MR. GRAY:
Of a
deposition.
Q
May I ask you
to
'ead, please --
MS. MADDEN:
May
I also ask if this
is a
deposition
which
Ms.
Brown has previously
seen or taken
part
in?
MR. GRAY No.
MS. MADDEN:
Then
I object to the presentation
of
Ms.
Brown, since
this
is not her testimony,
nor was she
present
at that
deposition
and I fail to
know the
purpose
of your
presentation
to her of that
deposition.
MR. GRAY:
Mr. Chairman,
I have a statement
on the
record
by counsel
for
Mr. Ripley, in the
deposition of
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Mr.
Ripley. Counsel
for Mr. Ripley
is in
the same la�
firm
to which Ms. Brown
is now referring
to
that she
employed
by. Ms. Madden
states
on the
was
previously
record
the purpose or
the basis for
the termination
of
Ms.
Brown,
MS. MADDEN: Again,
I object to
this
being
addressed
to Ms. Brown,
since she was
not
present
at
that
deposition. It's
not a question
of
her
testimony.
MR. GRAY: I'll
be happy to recite
--
Q
Ms. Brown, Ms. Madden
stated on
the
record
that
you were
terminated for incompetence;
is
that
incorrect?
A
It belief.
was not my
MS. MADDEN: Counsel,
I'd also
ask --
MR. GRAY: Thank
you.
MS. MADDEN: --
since asked
that
--
you
I'm sorry. Are
you finished,
counsel?
MR. GRAY: Yes.
REDIRECT
EXAMINATION
:1
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Q Thank you.
MR. GRAY: Mr.
Chairman,
you
know,
I
don't
want to
beat this horse, because
I certainly
have
no reason
to
�ant to embarrass
Ms.
Brown.
But,
if necessary.
I'l]
call Ms. Madden to
testify
and
ask
her if
that
was her
statement on behalf
of the
firm
on
May the
7th.
I
believe this Board
has
the
obligation
--
MS. MADDEN:
I
was
--
MR. SRAY: --
to
understand
whether
or not
this
lady is testifying
from
a level
of
competence
as
a
legal secretary.
I
think
that's
important,
because
you're being asked
to
consider
what
she did
in
that
scope. And if there
is
reason
to believe
that
her
competence may have
not
been sufficient,
then I
think
that affects the weight
of her
testimony.
That's
all
I'm trying to do.
MS. MADDEN:
I'll
be
happy
to
stipulate
that
Ms.
Brown was, as in my
terminology,
was
terminated
so-ry Cheryle -- on
the
basis of
incompetence.
MR. GRAY: That's
all
that
I ask
this
Board
consider.
MS. MADDEN:
T
do not
-- I
do
not --
I will
further state that
I
think
her
testimony
should
be
accepted on the basis
of
what she
recalls
of that
day.
She's already testified
she doesn't
remember
all
the
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conversations that
day
and
that may,
indeed, be
part o+
her problem,
but
what she
has
stated
that she
remembers,
I've
never given
any statements
or made
any
statement
to the
fact that
she does
not remember
that
testimony
or that
date,
as
to the conversation
she had
with Mr.
Ripley
rega-ding
his
appointment
with
Dr.
Toby, which
is the
only
statement
she
testified.
MR.
DARBY:
I didn't
get
your last
statement.
M5.
MADDEN:
As to
her
testimony
she made
the
appointmert
and
talked
to Mr.
Ripley
on that day
about
his appointment
with Mr.
.
. . with
Dr. Toby, and
I do
not think
she's
testified
to
anything
further,
that she
remembers
anything
further
than that.
MR.
DARBY:
Okay.
MR.
GRAY:
Nothing
further,
Mr.
Chairman.
MR.
DARBY:
Any member
of the Board
have a
question.
MR.
GREENE:
No, but
I'd
like to
clarify for
the
record what
. .
. what
counsel
has agreed
to here,
so
we can understand
this
a little
bit
better.
My understanding
--
MR.
DARBY:
You're
too
far away
from the mike.
MR.
GREENE:
My understanding
is
Mr. Gray
sought
to impeach
Ms. Brown
on
the
point of
whether Ms.
Brown
was terminated
as
Ms. Brown
indicated,
by being
!aid
E-11
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off, or whether she was
incompetent or not.
I oelieve
Ms. Madden has stipulated
that she would agree
that she
did make the statement
she was terminated because
she
was incompetent.
MS. MADDEN: I agree
I made this statement.
I think, indeed,
Ms. Brown has further stated,
and
I think have to clarify
what all of us consider
you
incompetent, that one
of the grounds for her
terTination was she was
not up to the speed of
an
experienced legal secretary,
as far as
that's what she stated.
MR. SREENE: My
concern is, obviously, is
the
issue of whether was
competent or incompetent,
is
something that we should
be concerned about,
to allow a
witness to be impeached
or not.
MS. MADDEN: Counsel,
if you would like
me to
testify --
MR. GREENE: Let
us discuss --
MS. MADDEN: --
as to her credibility'
MR. GREENE: If
feel that there may
be the
you
potential for falsification
of the record or
other
problems, then we might
want to develop that.
If you
feel that this is a side
issue, her competency
or
incompetency, ar'd it's
not for our concern, I
think we
can be satisfied with
the stipulation. Otherwise,
we
l
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may want
to ask
or allow
Mr. Gray to
call Ms. Madden
and have
her testify.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
It's
my opinion
it's a side issue.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
It's
my opinion
it's a side
issue,
similar
to
what was
going on
in reverse about
impeaching
Mr. Blake,
the
credibility
of his statement.
MR.
DARBY:
Agree.
MR.
RUFAS:
I agree,
too.
MR.
GREENE:
We do not
desire any
further
testimony
on the
issue.
We feel it
was impeachment of
a collateral
issue
and, therefore,
is
not really
relevant.
MS.
MADDEN:
I have
no further
questions.
MR.
GRAY:
Nothing further.
MR.
DARBY:
Anything
further from
either -- Do you
have
one
more question?
MS.
MADDEN:
No.
MR.
McQUATTERS:
Thank
you, Mrs.
Brown.
MS.
BROWN:
Am I excused?
MR.
DARBY:
You're excused.
MS.
MADDEN:
Gentlemen,
the documents
I have in my
hand
now
which I'd
like to
present
to the Commission
is simply
verification
of
the fact Mr.
Ripley did have
a second
opinion
and that
second opinion
did concur he
needed
additional
surgery.
Counsel
agreed previously
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he would
stipulate to
admission
and
I present it
to you
for your
information.
MR.
GRAY: I'm
sorry,
we had
a misunderstanding
as
to our stipulation.
I have
no problem
Aith
stipulating
to the fact
that he
did, in fact,
have
a second
opinion.
MS.
MADDEN: Will
you
stipulate
that
second
opinion
MR.
stated he needed
GRAY: Yes.
additional
surgery?
MS.
MADDEN: Gentlemen,
if he
doesn't
want
you to
see the
doctor report,
I'm
not going
to
push the
point.
I
to
hand
it to
for
further
was simply
going
you
your
information.
You
I'm
sorry, counsel.
are
also
stipulating
also
to the date
of that
second
opinion
and
the doctor's
name?
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
El
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
Division,
Q
Sanford?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Sanford?
A
Q
Blake?
A
Q
A
Q
And how long have you worked for the City of
Yes, I have.
Mr. Costello, were you -- Do you know Mr. Johnnie
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A
Through
my work.
Q
Were
you present on
March
16th at a conversation
between
Mr. Blake
and Mr. Ripley?
A
I wasn't
actually in
the
room, but I was
in the
same of;ice
area.
Q
Could
you explain or
describe
that office
location
where you
were
in relation to
where
they were?
A
Well,
our offices are
joined
together and
there is
a wall,
sliding
well petition
between them.
Q
What
type of petition
is
that?
A
It's
like a folding
vinyl
type wall.
Q
Is it
an opaque petition?
A
I don't
understand
that term.
Q
Is it
a petition you
cannot
see through?
A
No, you
cannot see
through
it.
hear through?
Q
Is it
a petition you
can
A
Yes,
you can hear through
it.
I'm
Q
How close
-- Oh,
sorry.
Were
you present in
that
office that day?
A
Q
Yes,
How close
I was.
were you
to Mr.
Blake's desk?
A
Ah, roughly
our desks
are
probably ten feet
apart.
Q
Did you
hear a conversation
between Mr. Blake
and
Mr. Ripley?
A
Yes,
I did.
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Q
Could
you
relate
to
me your
memory of the contents
of
that conversation?
A
Well,
Bobby
come
into
the
office
to report to
work,
Johnnie
told
him he
would
like
to
see him in his
office,
and
he
had
told Bobby
to go
ahead
and not to come to
work
that
day,
to
go ahead
and
take
the
time off until he
gets
his situa+ion
resolved
with
his
thumb.
Q
A
Were
Basically,
those
his specific
words
you recall hearing?
Q
Did
you
yes.
hear any
discussions
between
Mr. Blake and
Mr.
Ripley
about
how
often
Mr.
Ripley
was
to report back
int�
work?
A
No,
I didn't.
Q
Did
you
hear Mr.
Blake
tell
Mr.
Ripley to report
in
dailv?
�
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every day�
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Q
So it's
testimony
that
not every
employee who
your
is
out for
more than
cne
day calls
in
every day;
is that
correct?
A
Q
To my knowledge,
Was Mr. Encarnacion
yes.
in the building
the
present
day
they
had the conversation
between
Mr. Blake
and Mr.
Ripley?
A
Well, at
the
time I
was
in
the office,
he was at
his
desk,
which is
separate
from
Johnnie's
office.
�
How far was
he from
Mr.
Blake?
A
His desk
is
the furthest
away,
he's back
in the
far
corner,
approximately
twenty
feet
away.
Q
Could he
also
hear
Mr.
Blake's
and Mr.
Ripley's
conversation
at that
point?
not very
clearly.
Because,
like I
said, my
desk
is right
behind
his.
MS. MADDEN:
I have
no
further
questions.
A
The door
was
not
t-"
alI
the way, it
was only
part
�ay
closed.
O
When you
speak
of the
door,
are ycu speaking
--
A
The sliding
petition.
Q
Sliding petition.
A
�
Yes.
Are �here
any
other
walls
or
doors in
that
Ell
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A
There's
a front
door and
a back door, b�t
they are
separate
from
the
sliding
dc'or.
Q
Is there
any
other petition
that
would block
Of
Mr.
from
Blake's
wt-ere
office,
you were
as
located?
far as conversation
is concerned,
A
Q
No.
Did you
have
any trcuble
hearing
his conversation
while
you
were in
the office?
A
No. Actually,
I was looking
right at Bobby
when
the
conversation
was
going
on. The
have further
part
I heard.
MS. MADDEN:
MR. DARBY:
The
I no
City have
any
questions.
questions?
MR. GRAY:
Yes,
just a couple,
Ar. Chairman'
CROSS
EXAMINATION
BY
MR. GRAY:
Q
Mr. Costello,
--
A
]
Yes.
-- I think
you
indicated
that
if somebody
brings
ir
a doctor's
excuse
they're
going
to be
out a week,
then
you
don't
have a reason
for them to
call
each day; is
that
right?
A
Right.
Right.
someone
Q Well, is
comes in with
it your
a
practice,
medical problem
Mr.
Costello, when
say, go away
and
back
WE
I don't
care
how long
it
come
on
when
cured,
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takes?
A Generally, I don't
kandle that aspect
of it,
Mr,
Blake takes care of that.
Q Would you expect
that would be the
policy of
the
City of Sanford, just go
away and come back
when it's
cured?
A Ah, not in
that term, no.
no,
Q Okay. Thank you.
Now you didn't
hear any conversation
which
related
to a specific time to call
in or check in,
did you.''
A Not that morning,
no.
Q All right, sir.
Thank you.
And K Mr.
Ripley
testified
that
now
previously
Mr. Blake and Mr. Encarnacion
were present
for that
conversation on March the
16th, is he incorrect?
A Well, at the time
I was in the office,
he would
be
rA71
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'
Q Not on
Friday?
A No.
Q Not on
every
day, not
once a month,
not anything?
A Nothing
to
in.
pertaining
calling
Q How about
checking in?
How about
keeping
me
advised? Did you
hear
anything
of that
nature?
A I didn't
hear
Lhat part
either.
Q Okay.
Did
vou have a
crew in
the field working
that day?
A Ah, that
morning
we weren't,
we
didn't leave
yet
as of that time,
we
hadn't left
out of the
building.
Q What
time
of day did
this conversation
take
place?
A Ah, it
was
roughly right
at seven
o'clock
when we
1E]
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was wrong.
A I was
here for the
entire
testimony
tonight.
Q Did
hear Mr.
Ripley
say
that
he'd
been
in
you
out
the
sun painting
witn his
hand
and he
dizzy?
got
A That's
not the same
day we're
speaking
of,
though.
Q Not March
the 16th?
A The day
I'm speaking
of is
the
day
that
the
. . .
last
day that he
attended
work
and they
told
him to
go on
home
Jntil they
could get
it resolved.
Q What day
was that?
A I'm
not
sure what
the
exact
date
that
was,
that
was
the last day
he came to
work.
O So if
Mr. Ripley
previously
testified
this
evening
that
he was working
that day,
dizzy
and was
he
got
painting,
was wrong.
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REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MADDEN:
Q Do you remember what day of the week that was?
A That he came in and they sent him home?
Q (Nods head.)
A Ah, well, it was the last day he reported to work.
Tim might know that, or Johnnie would know that.
Q Okay. That's fine. You don't remember what day
of the week it was?
A No, I don't, no.
MS. MADDEN: No further questions.
MR. DARBY: Any questions?
MR. GREENE: No questions.
MR. DARBY: You may be excused, sir. Thank you.
MS. MADDEN: I will call . . . would call Mr. Sam
Williams.
SAM WILLIAMS
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
72
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Q Mr. Williams, do you know Robert Ripley?
A Yes.
Q Were you present on at Mr. Ripley's house on March
29th?
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Q Why did you do that for Mr. Ripley?
A He asked me to.
� Have you been ansisting Mr. Ripley in other-
matters?
A Yes, I was out there helping him clean his yard
up.
Q
Why
were
you helping
him?
A
Because
his
yard was
real messed
up and had
a lot
of trash in
it.
Q
Why
wasn't
he doing the
work himself?
A
His
hand
. . . he said
his hand
was botherirg
him,
that he had
hurt
it
at work.
Q
Did
he do
any heavy work
with his
hand while
you
were there?
A
Q
No.
How
long
had been
there that
morning?
you
A
For
about
an hour.
Q
Did
you overhear
a conversation
between Mr.
Ripley
and Mr. Blake
or Mr.
McCauley?
A
Yes,
they first
drove I
think Mr. Blake
when
up,
he
Mr. Ripley
he
hadn't been
in
said that
. .
.
asked
why
Pouch with
him
for
his light duty,
and that
Mr. McCauley
said that
it didn't
look good for
him for
not getting
in
touch.
Q
Did
they
ask Mr. Blake
. . . Mr.
Ripley any
other
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questions that you overheard?
how did
you
get to Mr. Ripley's
house that day?
A No, I then
kept
picking up trash
and stuff
and I
moved away from where
they
were standing
at.
Q Did hear
Mr.
Ripley say why
he did
not call
you
friend stay
with
you7
your
them or contact them?
A Yes he did.
A He said he
didn't
have a ride that
morning.
vehicle?
A Yes, we did.
Q That morning
being
the morning
of the 29th?
A Yes,
ma'am.
Q Did he say
anything
further about
when
he was
to contact them?
going
A I think he
said
whenever his wife
brought
the van
or at lunch, or something
like that.
MS. MADDEN:
I have
no further
questions.
CROSS
EXAMINATION
����
Q Mr. Williams,
how did
you
get to Mr. Ripley's
house that day?
A A friend
of mine brought
me
out there.
Q Did your
friend stay?
A Pardon me?
Q Did
friend stay
with
you7
your
A Yes he did.
Q Did y'all
come in a
vehicle?
A Yes, we did.
Q Who else
was there besides
you and your friend and
I*
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Mr. Ripley?
A His stepdaughter Donna, I don't know her !as-
MR. CAVELLARO: I have a question.
MS. MADDEN: Oh, I'm sorry.
Do ycu know
how old
she
is?
A
I think she's
nineteen,
twenty.
Q
Does she na"e
an automobile?
A
No, she doesn't.
Q
Anyone o-her
than
your
friend bring
their
automobile
there?
A
No.
Q
Mr. Ripley --
A
Well, wait a
minute,
There
Mr. Blake
yes.
was
drove up,
he had a vehicle.
I
Prior to that.
A
No.
Q
Okay' Mr. Ripley
ever
ask you, or
did see Mr.
you
Ripley ask
A
your friend
�o.
if he
would
take him
to a telephone?
Q
Thank you.
MS. MADDEN;
I have
no
further questions.
MR' CAVELLARO:
May
I
proceed?
MS. MADDEN:
That
will
be Mr.
Williams,
all,
thank
MR. CAVELLARO: I have a question.
MS. MADDEN: Oh, I'm sorry.
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� 0
MR.
CAVELLARO:
And at this
particular time
during
the
day,
what are
working
hours?
your
MR,
WILLIAMS:
Well,
they
to
are
usually seven
three
thirty.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
And that
particular
day?
MR.
WILLIAMS:
We didn't
work.
We were out
of
work
almost
that whole
month.
We
build houses
for Catalina
Homes, and they
have
sold
out
to another
company,
and
they stopped all
the
building
for a month
or so.
We have
just started
back
to work
with them.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Okay.
Thank
you.
MR.
DARBY: Questions?
MR.
McQUATTERS:
No.
MR.
RUFAS: No.
MR.
GREENE: No,,
MR.
DARBY: Thank
you.
You're
excused.
MS.
MADDEN: May
I just
have
ore moment?
�-
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MR.
DARBY: Yes.
MS.
MADDEN: I have
no further questions,
no
further
witnesses.
MR.
GRAY: No rebuttal,
Mr. Chairman.
MR.
DARBY: No rebuttal.
Does
the appellant have
a reouttal?
MS.
MADDEN: I have
no rebuttal. I
would like
to
make a closing
statement.
MR.
DARBY: Okay.
MS.
MPDDEN: Gentlemen,
if Y'all would
excuse
me,
sometimes
I feel better standing
when I talk.
I
in this
Mr, Ripley has
been for
think
case
out
sickness
for a period of
time. He returned
to work,
at
his doctor's
directions,
he did not not return
when
his
doctor told
him he was released
to light
duty work.
He
he
during
that
came back
or March 6th,
worked
period
of
time until
on March 16th
he expressed the
problem that
he was having
working in
the sun with his
medication
and his
hanc was hurting.
Prior
to being back
at work on March
6th, he nad
been to
work . . . been out
of work for the
same
related
injury. And during
that time he
had called
in
on some
days and not on others.
He had his
mother
call
in, but
as your own employees
testified,
Mr.
Encarnacion,
re did not call
in on every
day and no
one
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ever
addressed that
issue with you .
. . with
him, as
Mr.
Enca,nacion,
his
supervisor, testified.
Mr.
Blake has
testified that at
least sometime
during
that
period,
though it's not entirely
clear
which
periods
Mr. Blake
is testifying
about,
that he
had
an understanding
with Mr. Ripley
that he
did not
have
to report
in every
day, that he
could report
in pn
Friday
and
that mould
be sufficient'
Ncw Mr.
Blake
says
that
was before
March 16th. There
is no
other
testimony
that was
before March 16th,
and I
think it's
been
clearly
demonstrated,
as Mr. Blake
himself
stated,
that
his
memory of
times and dates is
confused.
I think
Mr. Blake
also has indicated
that
he was
concerned
about Mr. Rioley's
absences
due .
previously
. .
related
to this
same injury, his
Workers'
Compensation
injury,
I think that suggests
that
Mr.
Blake
at
least had
a preconceived idea
or a
prenotior,
in his
mind
about Mr.
Ripley's handling
of his
absences
to this injury.
in regard
In addition,
although
Mr. Blake
has testified
here
tonight
that
he specifically
remembers
Mr. Ripley
and
telling
Mr.
Pipley
on Ma-:4 16th to reoort
in
every
day,
Mr.
Encarnacion,
who said he was
present
for that
conversation,
does
not recall that discussion,
that he
does
not
recall any
statement to Mr.
Ripley
that ycu
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should
report
every day
on the 16th, and this is t�e
day
when they
sent him back
home to have his sur�ery,
nor
does Mr.
Costello remember
any conversation. And
though
I
concede Mr.
Costello was not in the
will
office
for the
entire conversation,
he does remember
the
conversation
that Mr.
Ripley reported, which is
that
he was told
to home
until the matter wit� his
go
he had
hand
was resolved.
Mr.
Encarnscion said also
the
understanding
that Mr.
Ripley was to gc home and
take
care of
his thumb.
I think
the case is
that there was . . . was,
niscommunication
in a number of
quite
conceivably,
instances
here.
8ut I think
it happened on both sides.
I think
that
Mr. Ri�ley
was legitimately under the
impression
that
he could
rep�rt in on Friday. lndeed,
that
is what
he has done
. . . he had done. He was
there
on the
16th, he was
sent home, allowed to go home
to have
his hand
taken care
of, and he was reporting
back
in on the
23rd. And
no one felt concerned about
that
week's span
of time
from Friday to Friday, no one
tried
to reach
him or leave
a message at his mother's,
and
they had
her number,
no one tried to contact hi� or
go out
to his
house that
week to determine why he had
not
reported
back in every
day. So apparent�y, from
all
evidencc,
it was acceptable
to Mr, Blake and Mr.
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McCauley and the
City
of
Sanford that Mr. Ripley
not
report back anti]
he picked
up
his Paycheck on March
23rd. If that
was
not acceptable
to them, certainty
n'�
indication of that
nop-acceptability
was ever provided
to M~. Ripley that
week.
Mr. Ripley
did
receive
a confirmation
that
he had
a second opinion,
which he
had
reauested somewhere
around March 21st,
based
on the
testimony of Ms.
Grown
and the notes contained
in
our
file from Mr. Ripley's
WorAers' Compensation
case.
So
whether or not you
accept Ms. Brown's
memory
today,
she had identified
that paper, and
it
as typed
and
in our file.
At that time,
on the
23rd,
a letter went to
Dr.
Toby from our office
and
a letter
went to Mr. Ripley,
confirming the
fact
that
an appoi7tment
had been
made
for him et that
tine.
It's
Mr.
Ripley's testimony,
anJ
there's no testimony
to refute
him from Ms. Brown,
that
she didn't talk
Po
him on
that
day about D~. Toby
s
second opinion.
And
W.
Ripley
s position is that
he
didn't know for
sure
when
he had
his second cpinion,
the specific date,
until
Lfter
he already talked
to Mr.
Blake that morning.
He said
he
did talk to Mr.
Blake
that morning and
indicated
that
he for
blood
was going
work and that he
was
going
for
a second opinion.
Mr.
Blake does remember
that
part of
the conversation
t,at
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he talked
about going for blood work. So there is no
contradiction
in testimony there.
Whether
Mr. Ripley or Ms. Brown
had agreed, or hcw
they agreed
who would cancel what,
was there a
misunderstanding
between the twr of
them, I cannot tell
you that.
I cannot Produce testimony
one way or the
other.
Ms. Brown does not recall,
Mr. Ripley has one
renembrance
of that conversation, there's
no one to
contradict
his memory of that conversation,
and I don't
think there's any evidence that Mr'
Ripley has
intentional]y
lied to anyone here tonight.
His
hestimony
has been consistent from
hearing to
deposition
to hearing. The few incidents
that Mr' Gray
tried to
Oromote as being . . . showing
discrepancies,
did not.
A hearing statemEnt has the
lawyFr, he -- An�
Mr. Ripley
admitted he calls and he's
done in previnus
conversations
and testimony here, he
refers to his
lawyer's
office as the lawyer. I don
t thirk there is
any evidence
that his statement orb
crsdibility is
erroneous.
He's admitted that he did
nct call ii. It
was his
understanding that someone
would do it for him.
he's had
people call in for him before.
I do
not think there's any evidence
here that he
willfully
or intentionall\ did not
follow the Cit�'s
procedures
as, by practice, he was
accustomed to them.
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That your written
procedures are different, we admit!
that different
procedures
had been permitted
to
be
followed in the
past is clear
from the
testimony
c'f
your own employees.
That
different Drocedures
had
been
followed by Mr.
Ripley in
relation to
this particLlar
time frame is
very clear,
even by Mr.
Blake's
testimony, though
he's not
sure what time
frame
that
was in and he
may remember
it being prior
to the
16th,
Mr. Ripley did
practice that
procedure
after the
16th
and no one called
him on nhat.
He went
and got a second
opinion,
he was still
in
the impression
that he was
going to have
surgery,
he
simply wanted
a second opinion
as to the
type of
surgery he was
questioned or
going to have.
raised that
I don't
it was unreasonable
think anyone's
of
him to
seek a second
opinion. I
think the issue
here,
as I
understand it,
tell everyone
is should he
about the second
have called
ooinior?
in earlier
to
Did he call
on he 23rd
himself?
No, we admit
that
he did not.
Again, though,
I do not think
that's
a
sign of willful
disobedience"
and I do
not think
that
time he was under
the onus
to have to
call in daily'
He
had called and
been in that
morning, he
had made
contact on the
23rd. The
question is,
that he did
not
call back in
the second time
that day.
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I think there
has been miscommunication.
I think
there mav have
been -- I can
only --
I can't ever-
.address that.
DiN Mr. Blake
miscommunicate
to him
about what he
expected from him?
The
testimony would
seem to irdicate
that at least
Mr. Blake's
discussion
with him not
clear from and
consistent
from one time
period to another.
Mr. Blake
went out to visit
Mr.
Ripley on May
25th. Mr. Ripley,
under the
previous
directions he
understood from
Mr. Blake, was
not really
responsible
to call in again
until that Friday
the
30th. His
testimony is that
he was going
to go
in nhat day, the
29th, but he really,
under the
previous
proceedings,
would 4&,e beeq
just as cleared
and covered,
I think,
by following the
procedures previously
laid down to him
repertirg in on
the 301h. I
think an
unfortunate
sequence of miscommunication,
perhaps,
on all parties,
occurred.
Again, I
do not think of
all those
points laid cut
-- Well, let me address them
briefly'
He's accused of
violating A.K.
Employee shall
not absence
themselves
from work without
authorized
permission.
He had permission
to not
be at work
and to leave
work rarch 16th.
He had permission
to
leave work until
his surgery was
taken care of.
We apparently
have a
��
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different interpretation
on the
parties about
wiat that
it
Mr. Ripley's
that
urril he
meant. was
understanding
had the surgery
done, and he
was going to have
the
done,
his
doctor was
surgery
question was
which
going
to do what type
of procedure,
that he was not
to come
back to work.
W. Encarnacion
and Mr. Blake both
testified that
they sent him
home to have the
surgery
taken care of.
Absences
in excess of twenty-four
hours withont
shall be
considered a reason
for
approved explanation
dismissal.
Though it's
a writleo procedure,
as I discussed
previously and
as testimony has
shown, it's not
always
followed by the
[ity of San%rd
in relation to
its
employees. And
specifically
in this case, it
was Mr.
Ripley's directions
and there's
no testimony other
than
that of Mr. Blake
that he told
him to report ir
daily,
by two other people
who witnessed
or heard at
least
part or all of
the conversation,
and Mr. Encarnacior
did not -- I don't
know if I'm
bleeding into Wall
or
not -- did not
recall hearirg
that, and he clains
he
was there for
the entire conversation
with Mr.
Blake
and Mr. Ripley,
and he did not
hear him tell him
to
report in daily.
11.7A-4,
the employee has
willfully violated
any
"'
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lawful official
regulation
or
order or policy,
or
failed to
obey any
proper
direction.
I do
not think
there's
any
evidence
here
that he
willfully
disobeyed.
That
he
may
have unintentionall\
disobeyed
by thinking
or
assuming
that someone
else
would communicate,
or that
he
was
entitled to
wait
the
Friday
to talk
to
that
until
someone
and
may not
have been
Mr. Blake's
:nderstanding
in Mr. Slake's
mind, that
I think
you're
asking
Mr.
Ripley
to read Mr.
Blake's
mind sioce
he followed
the
directions
Mr. Blake
had given
him verbally.
I think
11.7A-6
soleaks
to
the
same issue,
guilty
of insubordination.
And
it
s
my assumption
that
relates
to previous
testimc'ny
from
previous
testimony
to the same
type
that he
did
not
follow
through
on the
orders to
report
in.
11.7A-85
again
relates
to
the
same matter,
responsible
for intentional
act
or
course of
conduct.
I do not
think there
is
any
evidence
here tonight
that
Mr. Ripley
intentionally
violated
the City rules
of the
City of
Sanford,
as they
had
been
given to him
Pr
practice
during the
course
of
this
particular
illness.
T don't
think
anyone
Kay
disputed
that
Mr. Ripley
was ill,
The
that his
employee
hand
has engaged
was
injured.
in outside
activity,
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11.7A-15,
on governmental
time,
or
has
used
Citv
of
Sa7ford
p-operty
for
nersonal
gain.
I don't
believe
the
last
of
that
is at issue
here
tonight.
I
part
am not
sure
I have
heard
no evidence
here
that
he
engaged
in
outside
activities
on gcvernmental
time,
since
the time
he
was off
on this
time he
was on
Workers'
Compensation,
and
I see the
word "governmental
time
there
has been
no
testimony
to indicate
that
he
was
being
paid
by the
City of Sanford
durirg
the
time
that
he
was off
work.
"he
sa�i�factory
11.7A-16,
attendance
employee has failed
reccrd. Proper
to maintain
Ase
of
a
sic:
leave
shall
not constitute
grounds
for
any
disc"plinar�
action,:
There
has been
no testimony
here,
with
one
exception,
that of
Mr. Blake's,
that
Mr.
Ripley
was not
sick
and out
on sick
leave
*hen he
said
he
was
sick.
Neither
belore
the
16th nor
after,
It
is not
refutec!
here
Ly any
testimony
that
nis hand
in
not
hurt.
I
think
the testimony
that he
was using
a
lawn
mower
would
sound
so damaging
ir
his initial
termination
notice
has
been rather clear
that
he was
using
a
self-propelle"
lawn
nower.
And I
dor't
thKk
anvone
expected hiY
to go
home and
sit and
do
absolutely
nothing.
He
wasr't
told that.
He
didr't
do
anv
work
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-- The type of
work he was
doing,
walking
behind
a
self-propelled
lawn mower,
certainly
is
not the
saTe
do
or
with a
broom
o' using
work you painting
sweeping
your hands in
that fashion.
I would ask
you to consider
that Mr.
Ripley
has a
long history of
employment
with
the City
of Sanford.
And, as Mr. Encarnacion
testified,
his work
has
always
been
That Mr.
Blake
feels that
Mr.
Ripley
excellent.
has misused his
sick leave
in the
the only
past,
testimony to his
misusing
his sick
leave
was
Mr.
elake's. Mr.
Encarnacion
testified
that
he believed
that when Mr.
Ripley was out
sick
in the
past
even, not
time but
in the
just this recent
past also,
was
legitimate, he
was out sick,
that
Mr. Encarnacion
had
no reason to believe
he was
not
using his
sick
le�ve
properly. And
Mr. Blake gave
nc
testimory
as
to what
he based his assunpticn
that
he
was misusing
his sick
leave on 4e gave
no indication
he had ever
investigated hefore
to find
out
if Mr. Ripley
was out
To- any untoward
reason, so
there
is no
evidence
here
that Mr. Ripley
did abuse
his sick
leave.
I
don't
understand the
It's not
issue to be
my understanding
here.
that any
of these
items
cover the fact
that Mr. Ripley
was sick
too much,
it's
these
to
the
fact to
my understanding
charges
all go
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whether
or not he
was absent
when
he should
not
have
been because
he was
not sick.
I think
that
in view
of his
long
history
with
the
City, his
loyalty
o" work
IT the
City,
and
the
fact
that his
work has
always been
considered
excellent,
that the
miscommunication
that may
have
occurred
between
the various
parties,
both
those
for
whom
he
worked and
if
if you
wish
to take
the
position
. .
.
that he
misunderstood
his
directions,
I
don't
think
those misunderstandings
were
intentional
and I
think he
followed
through in
the best
faith
he
could
to
do what
he thought
he was
being told
to
do to
report
to
the
City on
his absences.
And
I would
ask
that
you
consider
all these
matters
and that
you
reinstate
Mr.
Ripley to
his job
with the
City
of Sanford,
since,
indeed,
it's been
indicated
he's
been
a
profitable
and
It is
in
file
and
cf
valuable
employee.
your
part
y�or
record,
his personnel
file,
and
I think
it
indicates
he
has received
rumerous
merits
and
promotions
and
merit
increases
"Iime;
wKile with
the City.
Thank
you
for
yonr
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The appellant
is a nine-and-a-half
year em�lnyee
of this City. I purposefully
started
out my comments
to you tonight asking
yo`' to
recognize
the focus
of
,/hat the City is bringing
to
you.
The
has tried
to
bring
appellant
a number
of
issues in, Workmen's
Compensation,
and
what was
said
on
what day, whether
or not Mr.
Ripley
was
suppose
to call
in daily or every
other day.
An
issue
was made
of t�e
fact that the City
supervisory
personnel
djdn't
try
to
City's
contact Mr, Ripley.
It's not
the
supervisory
personnel's obligation
to contact
Mr.
Ripley when
he's
away from work, it's
his obligation
to
keep this
City,
his employee° and
his supervisors,
advised
of his
status when he's out.
There is no doubt
that
the
testimony
showed
that
Mr. Ripley was out
for more
than
twenty-four
hou-s.
Mr. Ripley was out
for a specific
�ur�ose,
and
that
purpose has been presented
to the
City
in writing
in
the form of the pre-operative
and
ooerative
instructions that
were submitted
to Mr.
Bleke and
Mr.
Encarnacior on the
16th day
of March.
What you
have,
in my humble opinion,
this
evening,
is
an �ssue
of
the
witnesses
that
have
been before
c-edibility of
you,
because the basic
facts are
not
in dispute.
Initially what
Mr. Ripley
is
asking
you tc
believe
0
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is that
the
City, through
its supervisory
staff,
gays
E
blank
check
to Mr. Ripley,
said
go home and
whenever
it
that
come
or bacx.
might
be
you resolve
your
problem,
l don't
believe
that the
City supervisory
personnel
would
take such
a blatent
action.
The testimony
does
it. Both
his immediate
supervisors
have
not
support
of
stated
to you,
under oath,
that
he was advised
at a
minimum,
keep
is informed.
Let's accept
for a
moment,
just for discussion,
that
there may
have been
some confusion
as
to whether
or not
you call
in every
day, or
every other
day, or
every
third
day, as the
testimony
showed might
have
occurred
in
the past. There
is
no dispute
that Mr.
"Keep
informed
Ripley
was told
us
of vour
circumstances."
And he
was permitted
to go
home for
a
specific
let
reason.
our employees
It is
carte
incomprehensible
blanche
that
take off, and
we would
whenever
you
get your
problem resolved,
come on back.
And, by
the
way, if
you shift your
plans
any number
of times,
don't
worry
about it, your
job
will be here.
We'd have
a lot
of empty
space around
here
if that was
the policy
of the
City
of Sanford.
Mr. Ripley
's credibility
must
be questioned
as it
relates
to his
testimony
of what
occurred on
March the
23rd.
Now,
he tells us
tha� he
came in to
see Mr.
L)
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Blake on the earlv
morning
of the 23rd
day of Marcr
aqd
he said, "I told
Mr. Blake
that
I was
going for
blood
work and a second
opinion."
Now, Mr.
Ripley has been
around
the medical
community a bit
here in the
last
couple
of years.
He
certainly understards
that
you don't
need a
pre-operative
laboratory work-up
to go
for a second
He testi2i?d
that
he did
not
know that
he had
opi:ion.
L second opinion
scheduled
until
he went
home and
had a
phone conversation
with his
law
office.
Now, at
the
predisciplinary
hearing, he
said
that
he talked
to his
lawyer about it.
Tonight
and in
deposition,
he
said,
no, I talked to
Cheryle Brown
about
it.
Cheryle
Brown
has no recollection,
no specific
recollection.
She
remembers that
letter, but she
she had a phone
doesn't remember
call
because
the
she
phone call.
wrote a
Mr. Ripley
then asked
us to
believe
that on
the
23rd when he was
sitting there
by
the phone, that
he
presumed that
his law firm
would
cal7
any advise
the
City of the change
in circumstances.
Mr. Blake
didn't
CAI the Fisher
Matthews law
firm
and
say, "I'm
letting
Robert Ripley
go home, but
if things
change, yzu
guys
let us know."
Mr. Blake and
Mr.
Encarnacion
told
him,
"Robert, it's
job, it's
responsibility,
to
your
your
tell us what's
going on."
That
did not
occur.
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The
laboratory
work
didn't
get
cancelled.
Tre
operation
didn't get
cancelled.
There
is
a questi:n,
I
believe,
that you
must
ask
whether
or not
credibility
of the witnesses
as
it
relates
to who
was
goilg to
tell
the City
is sufficient
for
you. I
don't
believe it
should be.
Mr.
Ripley
that
he
the law firm
says
relied
upor
on the 23rd
day of
March
to
call and
tell
the City,
but
he wasn't
to
rely
upon
the law
firm
on March
the
going
280h when
he went
and
got
his seLond
opinion.
Now
why
noes he rely
upon
one
time
and not
rely
on another
time. Even
though
he
has
just finished
talking to
his
law firm
on March
28th
after
his second
opinion telling
them what
occurred,
he
didn't
ask them,
or he didn't
say that
he did, "Will
y'all
call the
City
and tell
them?" No,
he said
he
was
going to
call
on Thursday,
the 29th,
when previously
he said "all
I
got to do
is
check in
on Friday."
Well,
why not
wait
'til Friday?
if he recognizes
an
ooligation
on the
29t4,
or 28t4,
to
call the
City, then
that
same
recognition
should occur
on March
23rd, 1990.
The
grounds that
have
been submitted
to you are
set forth
in 6.1A.
And
there
are a
couple
of important
aspects of
that rule.
Employees
shall
not
absen�
themselves
from work
without
authorized
permjsaion.
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Absences in excess of twenty-four hours without an
approved explanation shall be considered a reason for
dismissal.
On the 16th day of March, Mr. Ripley's supsrvisors
approved his absence based upon his presentation of a
set of facts. And that set of facts was on the 16th on
the 23rd I'm getting a pre-operative checkout by the
laboratory and on the 21th I'm going to have surgery.
Those were the facts upon which his absence was
approved.
Now his testimony is that he knew before the 23rd
that those facts had changed. In fact, I think he, in
response to one of you gentlemen's questions, said four
or five days before the 23rd he decided he was going
for a second opinion. He's not going to get that
surgery. He didn't have any confidence in Fonsea.
Well, the circumstances under which he was approved to
be absent, based on his testimony, changed three or
four or five days before the 23rd. After they changed,
it's his obligation to make sure that his absence at
that point in time was based upon an approved set of
facts, and he didn't do so.
Mr. Blake and Mr. Encarmacion testified there
tonight that he was given specific direction` "You keep
us informed." Mr. Blake says it was supposed to be done
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every
day.
Mr.
ENcarnacion
had some testimony
that,
zut
quite
frankly,
is not
concrete
a hundred percent,
there's
no doubt
that
Mr.
Blake gave him Uat
direction,
and
he didn't
comply with it and therefore
he violated
11.7A-4.
The
City takes
the
position
that his conduct
not
only
in
failinc
to note
or
keep the City involved,
but
the
engaging
29th
day,
in activities
disgraceful.
sucv
as mowing the lawn
Not that mowing the
on
lawn is
are
disgraceful,
but
the
fact
that you are away from
your
approved
work based
upon
a certain set of facts
that no
longer
exist, and
you're
Sut mowing the yard, if
you
can
do
light duty
at
home,
gentlemen, you can do
light
duty
at
work.
11.7A-15
is,
frankly,
not applicable here.
There
is no
testimony
that
he was
utilizing City property
or
making
an improper
gain.
And that ground is withdrawn.
11.7A-161
the employee
has failed to maintain
a
satisfactory
attendance
record.
Proper use of
sick
leave
shall not
constitute
grounds for disciplinary
action.
Well,
I must
ask
you,
gentlemen, does improper
use
of sick
leave constitute
grounds for disciplinary
action?
We believe
that
it does. And we believe
that
home
leave based
if you're
sent
on
sicn
upon a
certain
E r- -I
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set of facts
and
those facts
change and
you don't
tell
anybody, then
that's
improper
use of the
sick
leave,
and we believe
that's
grounds
for dismissal.
This nine-and-a-half
year employee,
on a
couple
of
occasions,
was told
of the
policy, was given
the
policy
in writing,
received
it each
and every year,
says
that
he has read,
althongh
it be
quick reading,
well,
that's
not anyone's
fault
but iis
own, but he unde~stood
this
policy and
he just
failed
to abjde by it.
And that's
that
be tolerated
by the
City
something
just
cannot
of
Sanford where
you
have a number
of employees
who
lived
by this set
of rules,
and
it applies to
each and
every
one of them.
We
ask you uphold
the action
of
the
City.
Thank you for
MS. MADDEN:
your
time.
Gentleman,
may I make
two, three
quick remarks
in
rebuttal.
Very quick remarks.
MR. DARBY:
Yes,
MS. MADDEN:
One, no
one stated it
was the
township's
responsibility,
or the town's
the City's
to
responsibility,
or
responsibility
contact
Mr. Ripley
at home
tc find
out where he
was.
It
was,
however, the
testimony
of
the township employees
that
employees who
were
not following
procedures
were
counseled to
follow
the proper
procedures,
and
it
was
clear that
Mr. Ripley
reported
in weekly
after
the
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16th`
and it
certainly was
the procedure
that
was
followed,
according
to Mr
Blake, even
before
tvat'
And there's
no testimDny to
show other
than
Mr. Blake's
that he
ever
changed those
directions
to Mr.
Ripley.
And Mr.
Blake's
testimony is
contradicted
by
his own
�ehavior
after
the 16th when
he didn't
check
to see if
Mr. Ripley
--
If he had told
him to call
in
every day.
then I
would
assume that he
checked to
see
that �e
in every
day and he
did not, so
Mr.
Fipley was
called
proceeding
under
procedu'es,
though '=ntrary
to written
proceedings,
were the ones
that it was
his
understanding
in the information
that
he was
prDvided
on the
16th
that was the proper
procedures
for him to
do
follow.
You
may 3ave written
procedures,
but
if you
not follow
them
at all times
and you
allow
exceptions
to them,
then
you can expect
and you
have to
exPect
that exceptions
are going to
occur.
And to
all of a
sudden
turn
around and change
the rules
when
Mr.
Ripley's
not
at work is, I
think, discriminatory.
You
have
applied exceptions
to those
rules
before.
It was
his understanding he
was working
under
that
he had before.
exception
now,
as
Secondly,
he did keep
the City informed.
Hs came
he told
W on
the 16th
and he came
in on the
23rd,
and
Mr. Blake
that
he was getting
blood
wo-k and
a secor'd
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opinion. And
Mr. Blake did
not
testify tonight t�at
Mr. Ripley did
not tell him
about
the second
opinion.
Again,
I think Mr. Ripley
has done what
the
City
asked him to
do. That Mr.
Gray
is talking
about
what
the standards
of the City
are and
what the
procedures
of the City
are indicated
they
should be, I'm
not
arguing wiLh
him that that
. .
. those written
the City's
interest
procedures may
well better
protect
than the ones
that were followed
in this case,
but
I
that in this
the
would state
Lo you very clearly
case
supervisory
personnel, by
their
own testimony,
have
changed the
procedures at
times,
and I do not
think
that you should
hold Mr. Ripley
responsible
for the
by
that
fact that he
was given a change
of procedures
supervisory
personnel. If
you
have a complaint
about
exceptions being
made, then
you
should take
them
u�:-:
with the supervisory
who made those
personnel
exceptions in
the past and
Mr.
Ripley should
not
lose
the benefit
of his nine-and-a-half
years employment
with the City
because of the
fact
that your
only
cther
employee, the
supervisory
emplc'yees,
have,
indeed,
made
exceptions to
the rules in
the
past.
He kept
them informed
within
his understanding
of
the procedures
applicable
to him
at that time.
Those
procedures were
altered by
your
supervisory
employee
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and he folloved
through with
those proceedings.
He
was told
to have the
surgery, he
is going
to
have the
surgery.
No one has
indicated
that he
felt he
had carte
blanche
to stay away
foreveri
that he
misunderstood
how
far that
staying off work
would
happen.
Surgery
to him was
surgery. I
still do
not
think that's
a
reflection on
his credibility.
And,
again, he
was goi"g
to inform
the City and
di'j
inform
the City
he was
getting a second
opir�on
and he
was
�repared
been scheduled,
to inform
0e Fity
had been achieved
that the second
and that
coinicn
he was
had
seeking
surgery
from a diffe'ert
docto'.
He
had been
allowed a
week between
reporting
in
before,
and the
statement he
says here that
reporting
in for more
than
a week is
a reason for
dismissal,
obviously
did not
get him dismissed
before
and
he was
simply following
procedures
that the City
had let
him
follow before,
that as far
as he knew was
acceptable
to
the City.
Exceptions
were made,
and exceptior
were made
in
this circumstance,
and it is
apparently
Mr. Gray's
position
that though
exceptions
are made
by supervis�ry
personnel,
Mr.
Ripley should
be hold responsible
fs�
that and
personnel's
not the
-esponsible
supervisory
for
resPonsibility
the exceptiwns.
. .
.
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MR.
DARBY:
You may have rebuttal,
if any.
MR.
GRAY:
No rebuttal, Mr.
Chairman. Tha,k you'
MR.
DARBY:
Thank you.
It's
now
time for the Board
to come up with an
answer'
And we'll
begin on a voluntary
basis. Does
anyone
want
to
start?
MR.
RUFAS:
Start on that
end' You always start
on that
end.
MR.
DARBY:
Beg your �ardon?
MR.
RUFAS:
Start on that
end.
MR.
DARBY:
Okay.
MR.
CAVELLARO:
Having been
in this position many,
many
times,
as
far as management
is concerned, and
ooeration
and
administration of
duties between
em�loyees
and
employers" its always
understood that
the
employee
has
the responsibility
to not only the
employer,
but
other employees.
Attendance is always a
tough
issue
*he�her
. , . whethe�
it's hurt or sick
leave
or
whether
it's vacation.
Many times even
,acations
will
disrupt an organization's
operation,
because
most organizations,
including
the City, just
don'�
have
the
de�th or a�thority
of more t�an one
person
to
hand]e
the day-to-day
responsibility. So if
is
there, it
someone
not
adds addition�l
responsibility
on other
employees
and ��s kind
of a domino effect a]l
Ell
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the way throcgh
the organization.
What -- Whether
ths rules are
followed by
M,
Ripley and the
Ciry of
Sanford with
regard to
spec&ic
daily conversation
e'e^y
time you're
out, I think
it s
nice to have personnel
policy man�a]s,
but, ouite
frankly, it's
awiully
hard to administer
them
exactly
the same we� to
all employees
all
the time.
I think
personnel policy
responsibilities
maruals
that
is a statement
the employer
of these
has and the
benefits
offered tc enployees.
I don't think
it's right
to
justify every
. . . justify
every
line item in
the
policy manual
saying
we're administerirg
we
policy
exactly to the
inth degree
to all
situations for
al1
employees.
I do have
a problem
with the
laKn cutting
only
because I have
riding mower and
out many
also
a lawn on
self-Dropelled
my own, both
mower, and
on a
I don'�
consider myself
very
week, but I know
J have E
hard
time cutting my
wit! a self-propelled
mower`
grass
which I have,
with my
left hand.
Especially wher
I'm
right-harded,
and I'm
not even sure
yoA are.
I just
feel that if you
can
cut the grass
you can do
Aght
duty. Whether
you advise
your emyloyer
of that
is
immaterial, but
I uphold the City
the fact
Y
remains you
Sanford's dec�sioi.
can dn light
duty.
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MR.
McQUATTERS: I
like to take up where
he left
It's been importaot
to
off and talk
about absences.
this Board
in the past,
always been important
to t�is
Board in
the past to tyke
the total work history
K
coming up
with ar enswer.
We're focussed in on
some
foundation for
that,
specifics
this evening,
but as a
you know,
in any work sjL�anion,
assuming that
every
6bsence is
atsclutely oalid,
taking that as a
basis,
how much
absence is too
puch absence over a
nine-and-a-half
year period
of time. You recapped
large numbers
of days.
And so I think in considering
our decision
building
on what we
on the same foundation
re focussed in tonight,
that we have in
we're
the
�ast with,
The
is this a pattern?
next comment that
I wrote down for rur
consideratio-
is it appears
to me that early on
in
consideration,
Cr predisoosition
to a second opinion
long before
one was actually
set up, is reason
to
believe
that Mr. Ripley
knew the situation was
going to
change.
What I understood
in the sense of what
was
going on
that I got was
that for various reasons
do the
±he
And
first doctor
this was
was not going
known early
to operation.
on. And that the situatior
quite
Mr, Ripley's
Vitua401,
tie authorized purpose
for Ki�i
being out
was going to change.
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I think the testimony
we heard was
policy was
followed
consistently depending
upon
the circumstances.
The reasonable
prudent snpervisor
would
not have
someone
cel] in every day
i" they saw
a doctor's report
that
said they are going
to be off for
three days.
Well,
cmming
yo, just told me three
back, I'll see von
days, there's
on the fourth
no chance
day. It may Sr
may not
be reasonable for
Mr. Ripley
to call in once a
week,
but certainly I believe
the reasonable
prudent
employee
would keep his
emr]oyer apprised
of any
in
changes
ard call reg'Jarly.
I disturbed by
tne feeling I
that Mr.
was
got
Ripley
could be in touch
with his law
firm as often as
he felt
necessary and on
a more regular
basis than the
if
City.
And I think it's
-easonable to
assume that he
can keep
in contact with
the law firm
that often, he
can contact
the City that
often. He
was at a phone at
that
time, he could have
made two calls
at the same
time.
That important
to to think
was
me
about.
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Agair,
I wrote
down about if you
can mow the lawn
there's something
that the City needs
done that's
equally as
I have
assertive
empatly
as mowing the lawn.
for the situation,
but I thir�
enough abience
is
enough, that Mr. Ripley
didn't do
what a reasonable
pr�d'snt employee Aould
do insofar as
Wapping informed
abzut changes. I think
once a week is
probably
Vten e',ough
to call in when
you're that
serious!;
ill, but
if it changes, you
can mow the lawn,
you'-e going
to
a diffe'ent doctor, yo'/
stop taking
medicine,
a ]ot
of thing happened the
City didn't know
aboot. And
depending
on what you other
three gentlemen
say at this
point,
I'm leaning toward
upholding the
City's termination
of Mr. Ripley.
MR.
DARBY:
Mr. Rufas?
MR,
RWFAS:
I'm concerned abcut
the fact Mr.
Blake, he
ragulations
claimed
be changed.
or didn't allow the
Bohby knows
rules and
the rules and
regu1ations,
44e rules
he
and ~sgulations.
signed the papers saying
He s been
he understood
with the City
nine-and-a-hi]f
years. I'm not going
to believe that
any superviso~
can
sit on his butt and
let a man lay
cut for a
week without
doing something about it. Yet
it's happened
right
here. And I agree,
also, 9obby had
plenty of
opport�njty
to call and make
al] the phone
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calls he
needed to,
he called
everybody
else
in
tne
world excect
the City.
I've got tc go
along
with
-e
City on this
MR.
one.
DARBY: Mr.
S~eere?
MR.
GREENE: I
don't
want to be
too narrow,
but I
want to address
some
of
the points.
I don't
think
that
City
that Mr. Ripley
the
has established
was
required
to call in
every day
in
this particular
case.
MR.
MR.
McQUATTER5:
GREEN: I
I
think
agree.
Mr. Blake was
flexible
and
realized
Mr. Ripley
did
not have a telephone,
so
I do
not think
that Mr.
RiFley
should be terminated
for
not
calling the
City every
day.
And
the lawn mowing
incident, that
does
not
offend
me, personally.
'�evious because
I
he
do not
was mowing
fee] that was
the yard.
dishonest
I
don't
or
think
that because
he was
out
that he'd be
required
to
sit in
front of
a television
set
and just do
nothing.
Now`
I do have
a problem
with t:e
fact
that
tne
City was
in a qosition
where
they received
a call
from
the lab saving
that
Mr.
Ripley did not
show
up and
the
City received
a call
from
the doctor
saying
he didn't
have the
surgery.
That's
a problem.
But that's
not a
that Mr.
Ripley
did,
in
real problem
when we
realize
fact, go
to another
doctor
and did, in
fact,
get
a
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second
opinion,
and he did that
on March
28th.
Thst'�
establjshed,
there's
no . . .
there's
no contradictio
to that
at
all.
And I
have heard
nothing,
and I do
not believe
that
there
is any reason
for us
not to
believe
that Mr.
Ripley
was
not going
to tell the
City
on the 29th
or
he
his
that
he did
the
30th wnen
picked
up
paycheck,
get
a second
opinion.
And based
upon
that, I
do not
feel
that
Mr. Ripley
violated
the requirements
of
keeping
the
CiQ informed
his condition.
I think
about
what
has happened
here is that
either
himself
or his
attorney
did
. . . failed
to make
a few phone
calls
that
they
should have
made.
In a
perfect situation,
those
calls
should
have
been
miscommunication
made.
But I do
between
not feel
him and
that based
his attorney
upon
that he
should
be
terminated
and I would
reverse
. .
.
recommend
reversing the
Ripley.
situatior
he's
in now
and
reinstating
MR. DARBY:
Mr.
I can't
understand
why
Mr. Riplev
wasn't
obeying
the City
rules
and regulations
to the
letter because
he retained
an
attorney
in February.
And
anybody
who retains
him
an attorney
knows
that
that
he had
the City
better
is observing
obey
the rules
very
to the
closely
letter'
and
7A
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The ouestion of
mowing the grass, I agree
wiLh Mr.
Greene
that that's
the
that
not
a violation, problem
bothers
me is that he
got dizzy while in the
sun and he
said
he was mowing the
grass in the shade.
I uohold
the
action of the City.
Is there a need
for a vote?
the
All those in favor
of upholding the action
of
City,
sustain the acticn
of the City, say aye.
MR. CAVELLARO:
Aye.,
MR. McQUATTERO
Aye,
MR. RUFASr Aye.
MR. DARBY: Aye.
All those that are
omposed, say aye.
MR. GREEN: Aye.
MR. DARBY: Four
to one. By a vote of
{our to
one,
the action of the
City is sustained.
(Whereupon the foregoing
proceecings were
terminated
at 11:10 p.m.)
�
2
2
4
5
h
�
0
CERTIFICATE CF REPORTER
U STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF SEMINOLE
I, DIANNE GAGNON, C.S.R, and Notary
Public, do hereby certify that I reported the
foregoing proceedings at the time and place
herein cesignated; that my notes were
thereafter reduced to typewritten form, under
My supervision, and that the foregoing pages
numbered 3 thrcugh 196, inclusive, constitute
a true and correct record Of the aforesaid
proceedings.
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a
relative, employee, attorney or counsel of
any 00 the parties, nor relative or employee
of such attorney or COMM!, nor financially
interested in the foregoing action.
Notary Public
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS
101 West Fulton Street
Sanford, Florida 32771
MEMORANDUM
•
May 8, 1990
TO: CITY CLERK
VIA: CITY MANAGER
FROM: CIVIL SERVICE SECRETARY;
SUBJECT: CITY COMMISSION APPOINTMENT TO CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
The purpose of this memorandum is to request an agenda item at the appropriate
City Commission Meeting for appointment of a Civil Service Board Member.
The current board member whose term is to expire on June 30, 1990 is Mr. Ernest
Cavallaro, 402 South Winsome Court, Lake Mary, FL 32746. As recorded in the
Minutes of the Civil Service Board Meeting of May 3, 1990; Mr. Cavallaro has
expressed interest in serving another two (2) year term.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
/r
cc. .
Personnel Director
r�
EQUAL PROTECTION
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE
CIVIL SERVICE 130ARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD. FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407- 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
A G E N D A
for May 3, 1990
at 8:00 P.M., City Commission Conference Room.
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
I. Acceptance of minutes of Civil Service Board meeting of
February 8, 1990
•
II.
Discussion of
Terms of Office of Board Members
III.
Appointment of
Election Committee
IV. Discussion of Civil Service Board proposed "Meeting Time"
change
V. Other Business
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION
MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE ABOVE MEETING,
OR HEARING, HE MAY NEED A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS,
INCLUDING, THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE, WHICH RECORD IS NOT
PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF SANFORD. (FS 286.0105)
� 0
EQUAL PROTECTION
ezi
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE
CIVIL SERVICE 130ARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
MINUTES OF MEETING OF
THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
MAY 3, 1990
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman, Dr. John F. Darby
Bill McQuatters
Thomas Greene
Ernie Cavallaro
George Rufus
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL McOUATTERS
GEORGE A.RUFAS
ALSO ATTENDING: Tim McCauley, Personnel Director
Joyce Randall, Secretary
Chairman, Dr. Darby opened the meeting at 8:00 P.M., Thursday May
3, 1990. The meeting was held in the City Commission Conference
Room.
The Minutes of the Civil Service
• 1990 were accepted and approved.
First order of business was "Terms
inquired of the following members,
and Mr. Greene on their willingness
elected. All agreed that they wo
if re- elected.
go
Board Meeting of February 8,
of Office ". Mr. McCauley
Mr. Cavallaro, Mr. McQuatters
to serve another term if re-
ald be "interested" in serving
Discussion was then directed to the appointment of the "Election
Committee" It was the consensus of the Board to elect Gloria
Whitehurst, Evelyn Bennett, Charlie Turner as "Inspectors" and
Marion Anderson as "Clerk".
It was proposed that the Civil Service Board meeting time be
changed from 8:00 P.M. to 6:30 P.M. Discussion ensued concerning
this change. It was the consensus of the Board to keep the
meeting time as is.
Dr. Darby requested an update from Mr. McCauley regarding Mr.
Ripley's upcoming hearing. Mr. McCauley stated that they would
be going in for depositions on Monday, May 7th.
There being no further business the meeting of the Civil Service
Board adjourned.
C-4
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•
April 6, 1990
City of Sanford Fire Department
Chief Hickson
1303 S. French Av.
Sanford, FL 32771
RE: Resignation of Employment
Chief Hickson:
This is notification of my resignation as clerk typist effective
at 4:30 P.M. on Friday, April 20, 1990. My six years employment
with the City of Sanford will be terminated.
On February 20, 1989 I voluntarily asv:ed for a demotion of
Secretary I in the Parks and Recreation Department to a Clerk
Typist in the Fire Department. Since that rime I have been
constantly ridiculed and harassed. I was assured by you that
this would not be tolerated at the fire department. This was an
• incorrect assumrtion. You have been fully aware of the problems
for quite some time.
When you changed the organizational chart making Cindy Harrison
my supervisor you must have realized she had never held this
capacity before am that Some type of training waS i -1 Order.
This never occurred. N3) training or education of any sort- was
aver attempted. When she openly admitted that She resented me
from the SLC.t 1 soon realized my existence at the fire
department was a :st a matter of rime.
I resent my privacy hai11CJ invaded. Not only was my p�.one number
and address give to the general public, but my evaluation was
discussed openly -,�7ith fellow employees.
D u r J ng my JEou e e ,- S_ck _=a%,e I heard not :lord -rom anyone .
I- wasn't until ---he1 _~c _lve- f notif; _'a- 1-4 t at my physician
wOLl_i.l not r °i =aSe me -01" aIi ai.iditiOn.�.s. _'j7= wFeJi:' rile_ I 'ties
ral_ed. _ f �' __ aLer �- 'iluSi }incw the -eas_ n my ..,=dic?1
a 'e onal n �' a-_.re an 1 „e .a ttla�
_�:plal at- ic,.. v,; . __o} e__n=L-_t e,„ ,3, '':afi :�,� .? ± ?7 =',r_ L_ be
?:lad t wo j lysicianS
was cu_r_._t__- ti` =inn. was _ c)t g(- - j1_.. il� Gila t.1=
_L -4-- 4 T
-Y
....: l
0
Page 2
I feel great sadness in leaving the City. I have been a
faithful, dedicated employee who has a great loyalty to the City.
I have made it a part of my life for six years. Not only will I
lose one of my main sources of income, but will be leaving a city
to which I feel a sense of commitment.
It is my understai?di?:g that the City, through its various
beneficial programs, attempts to retain valuable employes and
attempts to help an employee who has a drug or alcohol related
problem, but seems to ignore the inter- departmental problems an
employee may have on the job due to inadequate training and poor
leadership.
in addition, today I received a phone call at my home from Tim
McCauley inquiring as to -,.ii en he would receive my cfificial
resignation and seemed quite delighted that I would deliver it to
his hands by 5:00 P.M. th_s
7inet.hical. As a professional
is �o _epresent the employees.
I feel I have a professional
that in the future T will be
with these aualities.
•
R� pectfully,
Den-se Bridle
afternoon. This, in my opinion, is
p ;rsr_ >nnel director he is uppo.sed
attitude and capabilities and trust
able to serve the City of Sanford
c Maycr Bettye D. Smith
Frank Faison, City Manager
city Commission
Civil Service B-ard
Personnel
M E M 0 R A N D U M
April 12, 1990
TO: CIVIL SERVICE BOARD MEMBERS
FROM: CIVIL SERVICE SECRETARY It
SUBJECT: CIVIL SERVICE MEETING FOR MAY 1990
The purpose of this memorandum is to confirm our phone conversations of this
date. The May meeting of the Civil Service Board is scheduled for May 3, 1990 at
8:00 p.m. in the City Commission Conference Room #109.
I will mail out agendas on Monday, April 30, 1990 upon my return.
Should you not be able to attend this meeting, please contact Tim McCauley at
330 -5626.
Thank you for your cooperation.
REL /r
cc: Personnel Director
•
EQUAL PROTECTION
CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
OF THE
• CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
EMPLOYER - EMPLOYEE Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
APPEALS HEARING NOTICE
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 1990, 6:30 P.M.
CITY COMMISSION CONFERENCE ROOM
FOR
• ROBERT B. RIPLEY
I[]
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION
MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE ABOVE MEETING,
OR HEARING, HE MAY NEED A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS,
INCLUDING, THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE, WHICH RECORD IS NOT
PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF SANFORD. (FS 286.0105)
EQUAL PROTECTION
CIVIL SERVICE [30API)
OF THE
• CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE Telephone: 407- 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
MINUTES OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
HEARING FOR ROBERT B. RIPLEY
ON APRIL 11, 1990
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman, Dr. John F. Darby
Secretary, William McQuatters
George Rufas
Ernest Cavallaro
Thomas Greene
ALSO ATTENDING: Tim McCauley, Personnel Director
Rebecca Layman, Civil Service Secretary
•
Mike Gray, City Attorney
Tricia Madden, Attorney
Robert B. Ripley
Paul Moore, Utility Director
Johnnie Blake, Sewer Superintendent
Rudy Encarnacion, Sewer Supervisor
Carmen Costello, Sewer Supervisor
Althea Parrish, Utility Secretary
Rick Cooper
Sam Williams
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL McOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
Chairman, Dr. Darby brought the hearing to order at 6:37 p.m. Wednesday,
April 11,1990. The meeting was held in the City Commission Conference Room,
#109, Sanford City Hall.
The following is a verbatim transcript of this meeting.
Dr.. Darby - Call to order the Civil Service Hearing at 6:36 or 7, the uh,
'the hearing is to hear Mr. Ripley uh, appeal for
reinstatement and the uh the City, is the City ready to
proceed?
McCauley - yes
• Gray - The City is ready.
Darby - You may proceed.
• Madden - I think it might be appropriate first to put a statement in the
record in to be asking if the defense is ready to proceed and the
answer is no and I'd like to state why.
Darby - Alright, excuse me.
Madden - The uh, Mr. Ripley was uh out on a workers compensation injury
which he was injured on December the sixth, 1989, he returned to
work for the first time, as I understand it, on March 16, at which
time due to the combination of his limitations and restrictions to
light duty and the effect of sun on his medications, he was sent
home and told that he should report back when he picked up his
paycheck and let them know the status because he was scheduled at
that time for surgery to be held on around March 29th. uh, as a
result the events of which we are probably here to discuss, I say
probably because we do not feel that we have been given adequate
time to prepare for this matter, uh, Mr. Ripley was then fired on
March 30th. He requested a hearing pursuant to the directions
given to him by the Personnel Head of the City. That same day he
had the hearing on April 3rd. On April 3rd he requested an appeal
again pursuant to the directions given to him by City Staff. And
believe it or not, in my opinion, he was served that afternoon, on
April the 3rd at 4:30 p.m. with notice that the hearing was being
held today, the eleventh. I wish everything in City Government
and County Government worked that fast. He attempted to contact
• us, the next day, which he did, If he had not had attorneys
retained to represent him in his workers compensation case, he
would not have been able to get in touch with and an appointment
with an attorney that rapidly. He came to us on the fourth late
in the evening, which is the first time we could work him into our
calendars. By the time we finished talking to him and realized
what was going on, the City offices were closed. We called the
City office on the fifth, the morning of the fifth, and asked for
an extension of time for this hearing in order that we might
either prepare to represent Mr. Ripley, or that we might direct
him to appropriate counsel who might be more experienced in these
matters than we are. We are strictly personal injury /wrongful
death /workers compensation lawyers and we make no pretense to be
other than that. Unfortunately, since extension was denied, I was
unable to obtain other counsel who was willing to represent him on
such short notice of this matter. And we are hear tonight, and
I'll put it on the record, that I do not feel that he has been
given accurate, adequate opportunity to secure adequate
representation. When you are talking about him, the matter with
him that in effect derives, deprives him of property
is 2
• Madden - rights. I presume this proceeding and the whole set up of the
(cont.) Civil Service Board in the City of Sanford is designed to produce
a form of due process protection. If that is the case, I think
that holding this hearing tonight with such short notice to Mr.
Ripley and short notice of time to prepare is giving only a token
compliance with due process. That he is being railroaded out of
his job with the City of Sanford, and that we are here to
represent him so that he has some representation but we are on
the record saying that we are not fully prepared; we have not had
time to subpoena documents, we have not had time to review his
personnel file; we have were told on Friday we had to have the
names of witnesses before this board, for subpoena purposes by
Friday. No attorney could prepare a case in less than a day.
Maybe some of the great ones, like , I think they can, I doubt
they can, and I certainly do not claim to be able to prepare
adequately in the time frame in the time frame that you people
have provided us. Since we obviously have other calendar schedule
matters on our file before this matter ever came up. So we will
proceed as best we can to protect him, but, I think anything on
this record today will not hold up in front of any further
additional judicial proceeding or labor relations proceeding or
any other matter that may come up after this, if we proceed
tonight under these circumstances.
Darby - Is there any question that any member of the Board has for the
Attorney?
• Greene - Uh, I do.
•
Darby - yes
Greene - okay, what exactly do you need more time for?
Madden - Um, Mr. Greene, we have had barely time to even talk to Mr. Ripley
and his witnesses, because the time frame in which we have been
able to manage this thing from a Friday, we haven't time even
trouble getting in touch with the witnesses because they do not
have home phones, we have not had an opportunity because I have
court schedules and hearings already set for this week, to come in
and take a look at his personnel file or even examine it. It is
simply not been time in three days matter to prepare for a
hearing.
Greene - When did Mr. Ripley contact you in reference to this case?
Madden - I just relayed that. He contacted us initially on April the 4th.
He got his notice of this appeal on April the 3rd at 4:30 p.m.
our offices close at 5:00.
Cavallaro - I have a question.
Darby - yes
Cavallaro - Do you envision this to be um, this particular type of
hearing as out of your scope of practice, did you envision
this to be a workers compensation hearing?
Madden - No your honor, oh your honor, see I think I'm talking to a judge,
be your honor, No we did not, it's just that we have not been
able to obtain other counsel to represent him who is comfortable
in this area
of law because no one would take him on such short notice. It is
very difficult to be perfectly honest, to find attorneys in this
town or Orange County even who will represent the employee. And
they, and I did talk to one of them and he said he simply could
not do it in such short time frame and that he considered the
whole proceeding tonight a farce if it went on.
Cavallaro - Are you talking about a labor attorney?
Madden - yes.
Cavallaro - Was it your intent to get a labor attorney?
Madden - He needs an attorney who is at least prepared or if qualified. I
is don't know if, we might be able to come prepared if we had
adequate time to look into his file, to find out what this whole
matter is totally about.
U
Cavallaro - You will find out tonight.
Darby - Yes?
McCauley - I'd just like to state for the record that a simple phone
call from counsel, I would have furnished you a complete copy
of Mr. Ripley's record, if you so wanted.
Madden - Well a simple phone call to you Thursday morning, resulted in a
denial in extension which is unusual proceeding, I must say in the
least, for these type of hearings to not, or any type of hearing
that I'm aware of, to not, with two days with such a short time of
notice to not get an extension. So we did not see any indication
of cooperation, and I will tell you quite honestly, we were
involved in other trials. We extended that as a reason for
wanting extension, that we had commitments otherwise. He came to
us because we were the only attorneys he could reach in such short
notice, because we are already representing him in the matter,
4
•
Madden - which is really at the root bottom of the firing which is the
(cont.) workers compensation matter. If he hadn't been out on comp, he'd
have been at work; this never would have come up, and he would not
have had us even able to reach us. Only because we do try to get
back with our clients as promptly as possible, was he able to get
in to see us as fast as he did. A new client could not get in to
see us that fast.
Cavallaro - um -hm
Darby - Does the City Attorney have a response?
Gray - Mr. Darby, I would um advise you that the notice provisions that
are provided under your policies and procedures have been complied
with. I will not respond to the statements of advocacy as to the
basis of this hearing tonight but it would appear that counsel's
statement of date and time for notice is accurate. The record
would show, I think, that the notice of hearing was sent by mail,
dated April the uh, initially April the 3rd, received on the
fourth, the second notice on the fourth received apparently on
April the 7th.
Darby - um -um
Gray - Uh, I believe it is within this Board's discretion to determine
whether or not this matter should be postponed for any period of
time, to allow
counsel to prepare, um, I would want to state for the record, that
this is not a workman's comp issue. Uh, there, the workers comp
issue or the injury was not the basis for the termination, as the
record will reveal. I just wanted to cover that bit. But we have
met our procedure the question I think for this Board is to
exercise its discretion as to whether or not you believe that Mr.
Ripley has had a chance to prepare, or if you want to give him
more time.
Darby - I don't think there was anything in the personnel file here
concerning workers comp?
McCauley - No sir
Darby - No reference at all?
McCauley - No
Darby - It's a complete surprise to us, about the workers comp part.
Greene - Dr. Darby, I have one more question,
5
• Darby - yes
Greene - Ma'am, I didn't catch your name, I'm sorry.
Madden - That's ok, it's Tricia Madden.
Greene - ok
Madden- m - a - d - d - e - n
Greene - ok, Ms. Madden, um how much time do you think you need to
adequately prepare for Mr. Ripley's case?
Madden - I think that in light of my schedule, at this point, that I even,
to adequately represent him, I even need to consider obtaining a
different representation for him. And that may take a couple of
weeks. Well, a week, several days to reach somebody to represent
him and then I'm sure they are going to want a couple of weeks at
least to prepare. I have two appellate briefs due April the 23rd
and 24th, which I must prepare and obviously come ahead because
they were already in my stable of responsibilities. So I think we
would need at least a month to prepare for this.
Greene - Thank you.
Darby - Uh, Does any member of the Board have a motion they want to put
• before us and then discuss it?
Greene - I have one more question.
Darby - okay.
Greene - Mr. Gray, how many witnesses have we subpoenaed for the hearing
tonight?
Gray - Uh, let me count here Mr. Greene. I think there were seven or
eight witnesses totally who were subpoenaed and we would intend to
call to testify, four witnesses, excluding Mr. Ripley, who we
would ask testify. So I think there were nine that were actually
subpoenaed. Did you all subpoena any witnesses?
Madden - We subpoenaed three witnesses on Friday, as we were instructed
before we had to provide those names to by Friday. I don't know,
we probably may need more, and we may not. We have not had time
to talk to anyone to discern that...
Gray - It looks like it's six
r:
.2
• Madden - ...We have also had time to even take, obviously no time to take
depositions or questions or anything of the witnesses called by
the City since I first received notice of these witnesses
tonight.
Greene - I have no further questions.
Darby - Any other discussion
Greene - I'd like to make the Motion that we continue the hearing for
fifteen days for Mr. Ripley and his counsel, Ms. Madden to
adequately prepare for the hearing. I say adequately, I do not
mean to insinuate that by not allowing this hearing tonight it
would a farce or anything close to that but since there seems to
be a large amount of witnesses and we're going to have to spend a
considerable amount of time if in fact eleven witnesses are
called. I think we need to um, probably have a better hearing
place or something anyway. So that would be my motion anyway.
Rufas - There is nothing mandatory that says we have to use this room.
Darby - I beg your pardon
Rufas - Is that right Tim?
McCauley - Pardon?
is Rufas - We can use the Commission Room over there?
McCauley - Certainly.
Madden - Tim, If I may just inject one...
Darby - Yes
Madden - ...point, I appreciate the motion, in light of the fact that in a
two, in a fifteen day period, if we were to try to set depositions
with these people I would be quite open with you that he is going
to have to obtain other counsel, because I will not have the time
to review that within my schedule with court hearing and appellate
briefs to do that, I think fifteen days is still inadequate for
him. I would appreciate you all considering if the intent hear is
to give him a fair hearing to schedule it for a month from
tonight. I don't know what rush it is to kick him out that fast
without adequate hearing.
Greene - Well, I don't think it's a question of rushing. Before I was
elected by the employees of the City to sit on this Board, I
represented several employees before this board. and
7
• Darby - Very adequately, too, I must say
Greene - I was forced to comply with these time constraints. Any attorney
that handles a case knows what the time constraints are.
Madden - I would agree Mr. Greene and I told you first for the record this
is not our area of law, and I think it is probably more
appropriate to seek alternative counsel. We are here simply
because of this time frame he could not obtain such
Greene - I understand that and I am sure
Madden - And I don't know, I am not familiar with the time procedures.
Greene - Well I am sure that Mr. Ripley can find an attorney that would be
more than happy to represent him. And I think he needs to have
his day in court so to speak. This is not a court. Quickly, but
giving him time to be adequately prepared. And I think fifteen
days is more than sufficient. And that would be my motion.
Darby - Is there a second to that Motion?
Rufas - I second it.
Darby - It's been moved, and seconded that...
• McQuatters - Could I ask a question before we take a vote please?
Darby - yes
McQuatters - I'd like to ask Mr. Ripley, if you think you can get ready in
fifteen days, and find somebody. What's your opinion?
Ripley - And be prepared, probably not.
McQuatters - What do you base that you can't be prepared in fifteen days
on?
Ripley - Finding another lawyer to take it. Cause she says she doesn't
have the time in that time to do it.
Madden - I think um, gentlemen, that for the record, there is a real
logistical problem finding an attorney who will represent him
because he is on
workers comp and has limited resources at this time. It's going
to take a little work to find someone who will, I assume, I
understand most attorneys who handle this area probably do it on
an hourly basis. I may be wrong, but Mr. Greene would know more
C]
• Madden - about that than I do. We are going to have to find someone who
(cont.) willing to take it on a "you'll get paid if something happens"
type case basis and that's not going to be every attorney in town.
McQuatters - Well, certainly we have, the little history that I have been
with the Board, always been concerned first and foremost
about what is fair and right in all hearings. If everyone,
wh, and that so, you know I am not opposed to having it
tonight. I am not sure what the time element of it is. We
have a lot of opinions batting around, uh this is not the
last uh, appeal process, probably, uh, if I am correct, the
appeal process past this is uh, is a true court room, legal
type process...
Rufas - Civil Court
McQuatters - Civil court, and this is meant to be a group of very
interested, and dedicated people to listen to reason and try
to make a quick and immediate judgement. uh, I would see
some advantage in proceeding tonight if fifteen days is not
enough, probably thirty days or forty -five days. You know,
if uh, if it wants to go to a full, uh, legal process rather
than a Civil Service Board, then it may be months. So, uh,
I see some advantages if fifteen days is not enough, in even
proceeding this evening.
• Cavallaro - I, just thinking about the same thing for your benefit. uh,
If, If we go through the hearing and you find that uh, for
some reason that you don't have a chance, for whatever reason
that is, then you go out and hire an attorney, or you get an
attorney, you are going to end up spending money, and loose
any way. I guess I am not quite sure, you know, your
position as far as how firmly you believe that something has
been a wrong here. uh, you know, and I, we have all worked
with attorneys and they're expensive. You go out there and
try to get an attorney, and start putting retainers up, and
then you know, you'd be beating you head against the wall and
your going to loose any way. I'm just sharing that with you.
You know, for your own benefit and from just understanding,
fifteen days or thirty days even going to be worth the
effort, if um, if you can't get an attorney, or can't afford
one in the first place. And then come to find out you still
don't have a job with the City of Sanford.
•
Darby - The motion before the Board is that we extend the time of the
hearing for fifteen days and there has been a seconded, it has
been seconded. And we are in a discussion period now. I, before
we take a vote on a fifteen day extension. Is there any other
discussions?
9
• Greene - Well, I would just, Bill to you, I think you are right. I think
we need to make sure Mr. Ripley has an attorney, and his position
is properly brought before this board. The question is how much
time is that going to take. And, you know, If he can't hire an
attorney, or he can't get one here, how long do we need to delay
this hearing for that purpose? And as you pointed out this is
quasi -civil proceeding, not a criminal proceeding. He does not
have the right to have an attorney appointed. So I think it is up
to the Board to arbitrarily pick a number. I suggested fifteen
days, but if the Board doesn't feel that is enough time, I'll you
know, I don't have any problem giving him more time.
Darby - We are discussing it now to determine if we need to extend it
further than fifteen days.
McQuatters - I'm a little discomforted with the fifteen days, I'm really
ready to go ahead this evening or more like thirty days.
Based on the attorney Madden's comments and Ripley's
comments. I'm not sure what the right time is, but if we
want to take a balance between wants and desires and
unreasonableness as well. I'm leaning more towards
approximately thirty days, than fifteen, personally.
Darby - Is there any other comments before we vote on the motion? And
that is to extend it to fifteen days. How about the City? What
do you feel about it, about an extension?
• Gray - I don't think thirty days would be unreasonable in this
circumstance. I don't think it would take a counselor, uh, much
more than uh, a week to ten days frankly, to prepare the case.
But it may take him a couple of weeks to get an appointment and
get a lawyer. The case is not that complicated, as you know, you
have reviewed the record before you. It's not the preparation,
it's getting a lawyer that may take some time.
•
Madden - And again gentlemen, I will have seen the record, I would like to,
I am not a labor lawyer and I (garble) that, um, If we were
going, if he is unable to get any other counseling, we felt with
his full understanding of our position, if he wants us to continue
I just cannot do it in the next two few weeks. As I am sure as
Mr. Greene knows, when you have appellate briefs due; you do not
argue with them about getting them in. And I have trials set in
that same time frame, so if there is no other resource for Mr.
Ripley or not, we might come back. But we certainly are not
prepared to do it in this short time, because this is a an area of
law that we would have to become more proficient in, just to
properly present him here.
10
. Greene - This is not a labor law question.
Madden - I understand that. This is a Civil Service Board. I am just a
little out of my element tonight.
Greene - You know, um, I mean any attorney can appear before our Board and
do a very competent job. It doesn't have to be a specialist.
Madden - I have a feeling that given enough time to prepare; even we could
do that. It's just that the time
Greene - I am, I feel confident that you can. I just don't want you to let
Mr. Ripley believe that
Madden - No
Greene - he has to go out and hire a labor attorney.
Madden - We could end up having to come back with him. But I just, in this
particular time frame we cannot adequately represent him and it is
not going to help me much more in two weeks, because I have such a
combined practice right now.
Darby - Are we ready for a vote on the motion which is to extend fifteen
days. All those in favor say aye.
• Darby - All those opposed, same sign.
Darby - Aye
U
Greene - Aye
Rufas - Aye
McQuatters - Aye
Cavallaro - Aye
Darby - Is there another motion, that uh, would you like to submit another
motion?
Greene - I'll make another motion, that we continue this hearing for
thirty days, to give Mr. Ripley an opportunity to adequately
prepare his case and hire an attorney.
McQuatters - Second
Darby - It's been moved and seconded to extend it thirty days.
11
• Gray - Mr. Darby, may I recommend that we identify a specific date and
time as part of the motion and ask Mr. Ripley to waive further
written notice of that hearing date.
Darby - Do you have a date thirty days from now which is, which would be
suitable?
(At this point the recorder was accidently unplugged by movement of
witnesses to get a calendar. This was not realized until after the vote.
The following is a synopsis of what happened from this point)
The date of May 10, 1990 was discussed, however Mr. George Rufas was aware
he would be out of town until the 15th of May.
From that time May 17, 1990 was agreed upon by all there and the time of
6:30 was also added to the Motion.
Dr. Darby called for a vote. "All in favor of the motion to hold the
hearing thirty days from now on May 17, 1990 at 6:30 p.m. in the City
Commission Chambers (contingent upon availability of the meeting place).
There is also waived the necessity of written notice to Mr. Ripley, if the
room is available.
Darby - aye
• Greene - aye
Rufas - aye
•
Cavallaro - aye
McQuatters - aye
Darby - The motion carries unanimously. The meeting is now adjourned at
7:03 p.m.
12
EQUAL PROTECTION
OZI
EMPLOYER - EMPLOYEE
0
r�
lJ
CIVIL SERVICE 130APD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
THERE WILL BE NO MEETING
OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
FOR THE MONTH OF APRIL 1990
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
EQUAL PROTECTION
ezi
EMPLOYER - EMPLOYEE
•
� 40
CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOR BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
THERE WILL BE NO MEETING OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
FOR MARCH 1990
EQUAL PROTECTION
•
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE
•
� 0
CIVIL SERVICE 13CAPD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
FOP BULLETIN BOARD POSTING
A G E N D A
for February S. 1990
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL McOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
at 8:00 P.M., City Commission Conference Room.
I. Acceptance of minutes of Civil Service Board meeting of
November 21, 1989.
11. Status of Civil Service Act Revisions.
III. Status of Department of Motor Vehicle Reports.
IV. Other Business
ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC: IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION
MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE ABOVE MEETING,
OR HEARING, HE MAY NEED A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS,
INCLUDING, THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE, WHICH RECORD IS NOT
PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF SANFORD. (FS 286.0105)
EQUAL PROTECTION
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE
CIVIL SERVICE 13CARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF
THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
ON FEBRUARY 8, 1990
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman, Dr. John F. Darby
Secretary, William McQuatters
George Rufas
Ernest Cavallaro
Thomas Greene
ALSO ATTENDING: Tim McCauley, Personnel Director
Rebecca Layman, Civil Service Secretary
Richard Cohen, Fire Marshall
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A.CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A.RUFAS
Chairman, Dr. Darby brought the meeting to order at 8:00 p.m. Thursday, February
• 8, 1990. The meeting was held in the City Commission Conference Room, #109,
Sanford City Hall, with a full quorum present.
Dr. Darby called for the acceptance of the Minutes of the Meeting of November 21,
1989.
Ernie Cavallaro made the following Motion:
MOTION: "I make the motion to accept and approve the Minutes of the Civil
Service Board Meeting of November 21, 1989 as written."
MOTION SECONDED BY: Bill McQuatters
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
Tim McCauley then briefed the Board on the status of the Civil Service Act.
McCauley explained the Act had been presented to the Seminole County Legislative
Delegation. The Delegation had requested a revision be made to the Act to
provide that future amendments be made by ordinance, provided it is unanimously
approved by the City Commission. McCauley further explained that this would not
include any revisions which would adversely effect the vested rights of members
of the civil service system. McCauley presented the Board with a letter from the
City Attorney dated February 1, 1990 explaining the revision and introduced the
revision as Section 48. McCauley explained the Act would be re- presented to the
Delegation with the revision within the following few weeks. McCauley explained
. the reason for the amendment was due to the cost to the State for passing
legislation. McCauley continued by explaining that it was his understanding the
Act would be approved and become effective in July of 1990.
• The Board then directed its attention to the third item on the agenda, the status
of the Department of Motor Vehicle Reports. McCauley explained that DMV's were
done on all City employees. He explained that staff had found a way to run the
DMV's with no cost to the City and that roughly 5% of the employees had had a
"problem" with their license. However, all "problems" had been taken care of.
McCauley further explained that all new employees were going to have this check
run on them and that Personnel Staff would perform these checks on all employees
twice a year.
Mr. Greene then questioned Section 48 of the Civil Service Act. The Board
requested for the record that in the future any and all changes that were made to
the Act would be presented to the City Attorney for verification that such
changes were within the legal limitations of Section 48, as well as such
amendments would not affect any vested rights of current members within the
system. McCauley assured the Board this would be the case.
Richard Cohen, Fire Marshall, then presented the Board with a request to change
the Job Description of the Fire Investigator /Inspector. Cohen explained this was
a newly created position for this budget year and that the position had not been
filled at this time. The problem with the job description was within the
requirements section of the descriptions. Cohen explained the current
requirements were for a certified firefighter and the actual need for the
position was for a certified police officer with arrest powers and authority to
conduct investigations. The Board voiced concerns about promotional availability
for the person filling this position, since the requirements for the next step up
• would include the firefighter certificate as well as EMT certification. Cohen
explained that if the person had aspirations of promotion; he /she could obtain
these certificates.
•
Ernie Cavallaro made the following Motion:
MOTION: "I make the motion to approve the omission of the State of Florida
Fire Standards and Training Certificate and the State of Florida
EMT Certificate for the job classification of Fire
Investigator /Inspector.
MOTION SECONDED BY: Bill McQuatters
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
There being no further business before the Board the meeting was adjourned at
8:49 p.m.
2
4
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CJ
STENSTROM, MCINTOSH, JULIAN, COLBERT, WHIGHAM & SIMMONS, P.A.
DOUGLAS STENSTROM
KENNETH W. MCINTOSH
NED N. JULIAN, JR.
WILLIAM L COLBERT
FRANK C. WHIGHAM
CLAYTON D. SIMMONS
THOMAS E. WHIGHAM
ROBERT K. McINTOSH
MICHAEL E. GRAY
February 1, 1990
ATTORNEYS AND COUNSELLORS AT LAW
-4�
FEB o'5 1 {/990'
AiC✓n
Cif WSAniFORD
Mr. Frank Faison
City Manager, City of Sanford
P.O. Box 1778
Sanford, Florida 32772 -1778
i
Re: Civil Service Act
Dear Frank:
SUN BANK • SUITE 22
200 WEST FIRST STREET
POST OFFICE BOX 1330
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1330
SANFORD (407) 322 -2171
ORLANDO (407) 834-5119
FAX (407) 330 -2379
Pursuant to the request of the Seminole County Legislative
Delegation, we have prepared a revision to the proposed draft of
the Civil Service Act amendments. The revision appears as new
Section 48. Basically, it provides that future amendments to the
Civil Service Act can be made by ordinance provided it is
unamiously approved by the City Commission and does not adversely
effect the vested rights of members of the civil service system.
The Delegation wanted this provision to eliminate the time,
energy and expense involved in future routine amendments to the
Act. They do not mind addressing major issues, but feel
"housekeeping chores" are better left to local officials.
Please advise me of the Civil Service Board's and City
Commission's position regarding this matter. The next delegation
hearing is February 13, 1990. I need to report to them at that
time.
In addition, I am enclosing an economic impact statement that
needs to be filled out and returned to me for filing with the
Delegation.
As always, if you have questions, please call.
Sincerely,
STENSTROM, McINTOSH, JULIAN
COLBER WHIGHAM & SIMMONS P.A.
Wi am WL.Colbert
jeb
enclosures
u i
AN ACT amending Chapter 61 -2791, Laws of Florida, the Civil
• Service System and the Civil Service Board-- bf the City of
Sanford, Seminole County to abolish the Civil Service System and
the Civil Service Board of Sanford, and to create the Civil
Service System and the Civil Service Board of Sanford, Seminole
County as its successor, providing for organization of the Civil
Service Board; establishing meetings; providing for employment of
a secretary; deleting all references to "Chief Examiner ",
"Examinations ", "Assistant Examiners ", "Notice of Examinations ",
"Eligible Registers ", "Nature of Examinations ", "Examination
Grades" and the examination process; providing for delivery of
copy of changes to Code of Rules and certificates of receipt of
acknowledgment; providing effective date of amendments or changes
to rules and regulations; providing for amendments to the Civil
Service Act; providing for succession of interests; conflicts and
effective date.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA:
Section 1. The present Civil Service System and Civil
Service Board of the City of Sanford, Seminole County, is hereby
abolished.
Section 2. Civil Service System Established.
There is hereby established a Civil Service System for the
. City of Sanford, Seminole County, which shall embrace all
employees of the city, except temporary employees, provisional
employees, part -time employees, all officers elected by the
people, members of any Commission or Board, the City Attorney,
practicing Attorneys -at -Law retained or employed by the city, the
City Manager, and the City Physician.
Section 3. Civil Service Board.
(1) ESTABLISHMENT. There is hereby established for the
City of Sanford a Civil Service Board composed of five (5)
members, who are residents of Seminole County. Two (2) members
of the board shall be appointed by the City Commission, two (2)
elected by the members of the civil service, and one (1) elected
by the four (4) members provided for above. The present members
of the Civil Service Board shall continue to hold office and
discharge their duties thereunder for the same terms and upon the
same conditions as at the time of their respective election or
appointment when this act becomes a law.
(2) QUALIFICATION OF BOARD MEMBERS. All of the members of
the Civil Service Board shall be residents of Seminole County,
shall be persons of different vocations, and shall not be
employed by the municipality in any other capacity, official or
otherwise.
40
r
Section 48. Amendments to Civil Service Act.
t y
The City of Sanford may, by unanimous vote of the City
Commission, adopt by ordinance amendments to section or sections
of this Act except the City Commission shall not adopt any
amendment which adversely affects existing vested rights of
members of the Civil Service System. Upon adoption of an
amendment to this Act by ordinance, the City of Sanford shall
have said amendment incorporated into the Act and shall file the
revised Act with the Department of State at which time the
revised Act shall take effect.
Section 49. Repeal of Contradictory Laws. All laws or
parts of laws in conflict herewith are repealed.
Section 50. This act shall take effect on July 1, 1990.
Became a law without the Governor's approval.
0
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Office Memorandum
To: Fire Chief 19�
From: Fire Marshal
Date: 2/6/90
Subject Job Qualifications for Fire Investigator /Inspector
AMEND TO READ
UALIFICATIONS
TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE
City of Sanford
Fire Department
High school graduate or equivalent and a minimum of
three (3) years experience in fire and arson investigation.
SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS
Possession of a valid Florida Chauffeur's Class Driver's
License; a certificate of Police Officer Standards and
Training. Must possess or obtain within a six month
period State of Florida Municipal Fire Safety Inspector
Certification.
I am proposing to omit Fire Standards and Training
Certification and Emergency Medical Technician
Certification from the special requirements. These
requirements are not applicable to the duties this
person will be required to perform.
RAC: cIh
R.A.Cohen
Fire Marshal
.
EQUAL PROTECTION
•
EMPLOYER- EMPLOYEE
•
•
CIVIL SERVICE 130ARD
OF THE
CITY OF SANFORD
P.O. BOX 1778
SANFORD, FLORIDA 32772 -1778
Telephone: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 207
Job Line: 407 - 322 -3161, Ext. 208
DR. JOHN F. DARBY
CHAIRMAN
ERNEST A. CAVALLARO
THOMAS GREENE
BILL MCOUATTERS
GEORGE A. RUFAS
F O R BULLETIN B O A R D P O S T I N G
THERE WILL BE NO MEETING OF THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
FOR THE MONTH OF JANUARY 1990