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02.14.02Historic Preservation Board Meeting Notice and Agenda Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Sanford City Hall City Commission Chambers 300 North Park Avenue, Sanford, Florida 32771 Time: Workshop 5:00 P.M. Regular Meeting 6:00 p.m. Presentation of Certificate of Recognition to New Tribes Mission (Ken & Terri Rinalda, Dan and Gwen Krieter accepting for the Mission) Workshop: *Added item: discussion of new windows for old Post Office presented by Tom George, Public Works Committee updates and discussions Discussion of applications: Should components (fences, windows, etc.) be on separate applications? Regular Meeting: 1. Call to Order 2. Roll Call - excused and unexcused absences 3. Approval of Minutes: January 10, 2002 4. Applications for Certificates of Appropriateness — Commercial District a) 213 E. l gt St. Repair awning; new roof; new beadboard; remove vitrolite glass & repair walls b) 107 Magnolia Ave. reroof; replace windows 5. Application for Fee Waiver for Historic Buildings a) 107 Magnolia Ave. Waive fees for reroof and window replacement 6. Applications for Certificates of Appropriateness — Residential District a) 1401 S. Magnolia Ave b) 1115 S. Myrtle Ave.: C) 600 S. Magnolia Ave.: d) 1219 Park Ave.: e) 107 E. 7 Street: 7. Minor Reviews 8. 6 -month Reviews 1006 Palmetto Ave. 823 Park Ave. 1220 Magnolia Ave. 908 Magnolia Ave. 910 Park Ave. 802 Palmetto Ave. 1119 Myrtle Avenue Install A/C units by cutting holes (41 ' / 2 X 18 ") in walls Replace window with wood window Replace windows with wood windows Replace wood door with glass door Construct bay window,2" d story porch, car port & drive, fences & freestanding open structure in rear yard Construct 6' cypress fence Replace door with window; Remove roof above door Construct fence Modify existing windows; Construct wall at alley Replace window screens with aluminum screens Place metal storage shed at rear of property Construct temporary fenced child play area 9. Chairman and Board's items for discussion 10. Adjournment. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD WORKSHOP MEETING OF FEBRUARY 14, 2002 5:00 P.M. CITY COMMISSION CHAMBERS CITY HALL, SANFORD, FL MEMBERS PRESENT Scott Singeisen Alec Then Maria Shreve Marveen Kelly Barbara Farrell Leslie Stevens Mary Valente Melanie Winternheimer Stephen Myers Robert Kuhn MEMBER ABSENT Fred Rogers OTHERS PRESENT Antonia Gerli, Staff Liaison Mary Muse, Recording Secretary Mr. Singeisen called the workshop meeting to order at 5:00 P.M. Mr. Singeisen presented a Certificate of Recognition to the New Tribes Mission and commended them on the restoration preservation to their structure on W. 1 st Street. The first item was discussion regarding new windows for the old Post Office by Tom George with the Public Works Department. He stated that the City and County have entered into an interlocal agreement for the use of the old post office building on 1 st street. The main goal is to refurbish the windows by removing them and repairing any damaged windows and reinstall them. There is a concern regarding lead paint abatement. They have received estimates between $50,000 to $100,000 just on the abatement issue. He asked if the board would consider the removal and replacement of windows with something that is similar, not exactly the same. Ms. Stevens advised the board that she has a bid on the job to restore the windows. The sashes would be removed at the job site and brought to the shop, with only the frames being left. The only issue about lead paint at the site would be what is left on the frames. WORKSHOP MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 2 The old windows have lasted this long and possibly you could not get the same time of life out of the new windows. Mr. George stated that they are looking for the most cost - effective way, but also to do it properly. The company he is dealing with is the same one that did the Stadium. If the lead paint issue were left out, the cost to replace or repair would be close. The new windows would cost $20,000 and the restoration of the existing windows would cost approximately $30,000. Mr. Singeisen asked Mr. George to keep the board informed. Mr. Singeisen asked Ms. Whatley to come forward regarding a fence request she has. Ms. Whatley stated that she replaced a wood fence with a vinyl fence. When she pulled the permit she was not aware that she could not replace it with a vinyl fence. The vinyl fence would help keep the cost down because they would not have to replace the wood fence every few years. They have spent about $350,000 improving the building already. The board questioned why this request was being discussed during workshop instead of the regular meeting and without an application. Ms. Gerli stated that Ms. Whatley asked if she could come tonight and talk to the board about her fence situation. Mr. Then stated that he was informed about a truckload of vinyl fencing that was to be installed at Tajiri so he went there to speak with someone. He spoke with Ms. Whatley and advised her to contact Antonia regarding the fence approval. He questioned if the permit was signed by the building department or approved through Antonia's office. Ms. Gerli stated that the replacement did not come through her. Mr. Singeisen stated that it is not necessarily the applicant's fault when the building department gave her a permit. Ms. Gerli stated that the request should have come through her before the permit was issued. Mr. Then informed Ms. Whatley that the board is currently addressing vinyl- fencing material. There is a standing committee that was asked to report on vinyl fencing and building material, which at this meeting the committee was going to report on the fencing issue. Ms. Whatley informed the board that the fence is 5 ft. tall with a 1 ft. piece of lattice on top. Ms. Whatley asked the Director, Henry Nixon, to come forward and speak. Mr. Nixon stated that the bottom portion of the wood fencing tends to rot. The vinyl fence is being installed at the exact same location and they are 80% complete with the installation. WORKSHOP MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 3 Mr. Singeisen stated that the board would like to help, but not sure how to get around or address the issue that a permit was issued. The board needs to hear from the subcommittee on the material before the board can make a decision. He encouraged Ms. Whatley to complete an application and if the board decides vinyl fencing is an approved material, then the board could proceed with her request during the regular meeting. Ms. Whatley will also need to draw the layout on a piece of paper showing the boundaries. Ms. Gerli advised the board that the building division has become part of the Engineering & Planning Department. She will get with them and advise them on what will require a certificate of appropriateness. Mr. Singeisen stated that Tony, Antonia, Code Enforcement, Building Director, and he should get together and discuss this issue. Mr. Singeisen asked for an update from the subcommittee on building material and construction practices. Mr. Then stated that the building material standing committee consisted of Leslie Stevens, Melanie Winternheimer, and himself. They researched the vinyl fence issue and their opinion is that regardless of height, they recommend the vinyl fence meet setback requirements that the board currently has for privacy fencing, which would mean back from the street and no further forward than the closet wall of the house. It would be the same for corner lots with the recommendation that no vinyl fencing between any wall of the house and the street. Vinyl fencing could come up to the edge of the house and transfer over to wood going towards the street. They also would recommend a conditional requirement for some sort of landscaping giving the extremely low maintenance for vinyl fencing, such as shrubbery or climbing vines, be required to take away from the blank white wall and shiny material of the vinyl fencing. They also recommend that vinyl siding be removed from the S code. Ms. Winternheimer stated she reviewed other districts (northern districts) to see if harsher climates, excluding Florida districts, to see if they allowed vinyl fencing. Overall, the areas she reviewed felt that material such as vinyl, aluminum, asphalt, and fiber reinforced cement board were not appropriate materials for the historic districts. All but one district, specifically excluded vinyl fencing. One of them, Rockville, Maryland, gave variances for preschool playgrounds only, due to safety factors. Charlotte, North Carolina has and exception that they can use vinyl fencing as long as it was not visible from any street. There were nine districts, which were Ft. Wayne, Indiana, Rockville, Maryland, Salisbury, North Carolina, Hillsborough, North Carolina, Franklin, Massachusetts, Lynetteville, Wisconsin, Charlotte, North Carolina, Sawyer (St. Louis), Missouri, and Province, Rhode Island. While doing the research, she found that Providence had a statement regarding a discussion about vinyl fencing and one reason WORKSHOP MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 4 why they determined that it was not a valid product was that based on the grade, it was still subject to warpage and bending, even under normal conditions. Ms. Stevens stated that there are different grades of vinyl fencing. There are some that seldom do warp. There are some pickets that are riveted and some that are not and the pickets that are not riveted you would have to buy a brand new panel. There are a couple places in Sanford that has broken pickets. She emailed Moniter in Tallahassee regarding this situation and he said that basically that in the secretary standards it says it needs to be replaced with what was there. If there was no fence, it was the discretion of the board. He advised, personally speaking, vinyl should not be used in historical districts. There was additional discussion on vinyl siding. There was a question about the cost if it would be an economical burden for someone if they were not allowed to install vinyl or aluminum siding. The committee did not discuss the cost factor. Mr. Myers stated that he had heard you could not paint vinyl siding a darker shade because it would attract the heat and cause it to buckle. Ms. Kelly made a motion to recommend modifying S code to allow vinyl fencing as an approved material. Mr. Kuhn seconded. During discussion the board asked if grade /thickness would be a condition or if there would be setback requirements or screening with landscaping. Ms. Kelly amended her motion to recommend modifying the S code to allow vinyl fencing as an approved material and regardless of height, the vinyl fence must meet the setback requirements that the board currently has for privacy fencing, which would mean back from the street and no further forward than the closest wall of the house, and there is to be some sort of landscaping, such as shrubbery or climbing vines, required in front of it. Mr. Kuhn seconded amended motion. All in favor. Amended Motion carried. The workshop adjourned at 6:09 P.M. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING OF FEBRUARY 14, 2002 6:00 P.M. CITY COMMISSION CHAMBERS CITY HALL, SANFORD, FL MEMBERS PRESENT Scott Singeisen Alec Then Maria Shreve Marveen Kelly Barbara Farrell Leslie Stevens Mary Valente Melanie Winternheimer Stephen Myers Robert Kuhn MEMBER ABSENT Fred Rogers OTHERS PRESENT Antonia Gerli, Staff Liaison Mary Muse, Recording Secretary Mr. Singeisen called the meeting to order at 6:10 P.M. After making a few modifications to the minutes, Mr. Kuhn moved to approve the Minutes with changes. Ms. Shreve seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Certificate of Appropriateness — Commercial: 213 E. 1 st Street — repair awning; new roof, new beadboard; remove vitrolite glass and repair walls. Ms. Farrell, 109 S Palmetto Avenue, was present. She is working with the owner, Mr. Jacobson. They are trying to get the building back into shape. They would like to repair the existing awning, install a new roof, new beadboard, replace and repair the clear story windows, remove the vitrolite glass, and repair the walls. The windows to be replaced are the ones above the awning and they will be replaced with wood material. They have not seen anything under the vitrolite. The fascia and awning that is to be replaced will be metal and painted. Mr. Then stated that once the facade is painted and when the window a/c units are addressed, the drains need to be corrected because they are damaging the masonry on the building. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 2 Ms. Shreve made a motion to approve with modifications as discussed. Mr. Myers seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Certificate of Appropriateness — Commercial: 107 Magnolia Avenue — reroof and replace windows. Stephanie Powers, 107 Magnolia Avenue, was present. They would like to replace the windows with the same size and color. According to the architectural regulations the windows could be painted wood or vinyl clad windows. The exterior of the windows is rotted. The wood constantly needs to be maintained and since they have to replace the window, they would like to change it to vinyl clad windows. The windowsills and sashes will be replaced. They are only replacing the windows on the top floor. Ms. Stevens stated that they restored the windows in 1997 for the owner. The original windows are wood and there is no visible sign of rot on the outside. If a good quality of paint is put on the surface, it would last longer than 1 year. Rami Yosefian, owner of the building, stated they did replace the glass part of the windows, but not the framing of the windows. There are leaks coming in around the frame because they were not sealed properly. Mr. Then stated that if you go by the standards, it states that material that can be repaired should not be replaced. Mr. Yosefian stated that he would like to withdraw the application and keep the windows the way they are. Mr. Singeisen stated that the record will reflect the applicant withdrew the application. Ms. Gerli stated that the roof can be approved in the office due to it being a flat roof. Application for Fee Waiver for Historic Building — 107 Magnolia Avenue: waive fees for reroof and window replacement. Mr. Singeisen asked why this request is before this board. Ms. Gerli informed him that the criteria meets the secretary standards. Since the window application was withdrawn, the only thing left is the reroof and it is only a $20 permit. Mr. Then moved to approve the waiver for the reroof. Ms. Kelly seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 3 Mr. Kuhn left the meeting at this time. Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 1401 S. Magnolia Avenue - install A/C units by cutting holes (41 '/z x 18 ") in walls. Cliff Gorenflo, representative for Mr. Yosefian, was present. Mr. Gorenflo stated that the building currently has 18 canister units, which have been there for 20 or more years and surrounded by 8 -ft. chain link fences with piping coming up and going through a hole in the window. The A/C Company is proposing to remove the 18 canisters that are surrounded by the chain link fence and the piping and replace with 50 hotel type flush units which are 16 inches high and 48 inches wide. All exterior signs of heating and air conditioning will be removed along with the chain link fencing. It is his understanding that the A/C contractor has pulled the permits and did not think they were affecting the exterior of the building. For the interior areas, there will be inside central heat and air units. Mr. Singeisen stated that he does not have a picture of what it will look like with the units installed. With the 50 new units, it affects all four sides of the exterior building. Mr. Yosefian stated that the A/C grilles will be painted the same color as the brick. The window units are flush with the exterior of the building. There are 50 units, one per room. Currently there are canisters within a chain link fence on the property. If they don't install the units on the exterior of the building, they could place units on the roof. The building will be used for independent assisted living. Each individual room will have their own unit. The experts said this way would be the best to fit this use, being less extrusive. The board asked for pictures, which has been a requirement in the past. Mr. Yosefian stated that a general contractor pulled permits, as well as the subcontractors. Plans were submitted and reviewed. All sketches were submitted and approved by the building department and all work has been completed. Mr. Then informed the board and Mr. Yosefian that as of last night, the grilles were not installed. Mr. Yosefian stated that the units are not there because the drywall is not finished. The building department put a hold on the drywall because of this issue. The holes are cut and cardboard has been put in the place where the units will be installed. Mr. Gorenflo stated that it is not the applicant's fault. The owners have chosen this type of system and the building department issued the permit. Mr. Singeisen instructed the board that they are ruling on a penetration that penetrates a wall, not the system. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 4 Ms. Shreve stated that the board needs to determine if this will alter the historic integrity of the building. It doesn't matter if the work has been done, it is not right if it has altered the integrity of the building. Mr. Gorenflo stated that it is appropriate to consider what is there now because it is the lesser of two evils, it will be more historical after this approval. Ms. Winternheimer made a motion to approve. Ms. Kelly seconded for discussion. Mr. Then stated he would vote against because there is not visual representation. Mr. Myers stated that it is the goal of the board not to approve the lesser of two evils but promote preservation and approve by Schedule S guidelines. Ms. Winternheimer for, all others against. Application denied. Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 1115 S Myrtle Avenue — replace window with wood window. Sandra Glenn, soon to be tenant, was present to represent the owner, Kathy Plyler. Ms. Plyler would like to remove an aluminum window and replace with a wood window. The window is located at the back of the house around the kitchen area. Ms. Gerli stated that the contractor was supposed to come to the meeting and present pictures of the windows and photos of the house. Ms. Stevens stated that the contractor came to see them and was given a price to replace window. Ms. Kelly stated that she is giving them a window if the certificate of appropriateness is approved tonight. The window will be one over one. Mr. Singeisen suggested that the board table application until contractor can submit photos and supporting documentation so the board can understand what it is being approved. Mr. Then made a motion to table the application until a certificate of appropriateness is completed. Ms. Stevens seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 600 S. Magnolia Avenue — replace windows with wood windows. Ms. Stevens stated that the applicant was not present. They will be doing the windows for the applicant. Asked if she should present it or if the board should table. Mr. Myers made a motion to table the application. Ms. Shreve seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 5 Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 1219 Park Avenue — replace wood door with glass door. Edward Glover, owner, was present. He would like to change the door and put in a commercial glass door at the front entrance area. It will be a plain all glass commercial door with a handle and aluminum frame. It will be put back the way it was in 1962. Ms. Farrell made a motion to approve glass door with aluminum frame as it was in the 60's. Ms. Valente seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 107 E. 7 th Street — construct bay window, 2nd story porch, carport & drive, fences and freestanding open structure in rear yard. Danielle Trent, 7825 George Ann St, was present. She is requesting an extension on the driveway approval. The driveway permit was approved and issued by the City, but has expired. The garage that was built replaced two old sheds. The driveway will not be poured all the way up to the garage. Due to several items on the application, Mr. Singeisen had the board review as numbered. Number one stated that there was prior approval for a second story porch and porte - cochere to pour driveway on right side of house. Owner is asking for an extension of this approval since it is expired. Ms. Kelly made a motion to approve as submitted for item number one. Ms. Farrell seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Item number two is to take bay window to second story to fit under existing roof. When previously discussed, there was no picture — now a picture is available. Mr. Then questioned the glass panel because typically the board does not allow picture windows. Ms. Trent stated that the two side panels will not be opening windows unless board requires them to be. Mr. Myers asked if there would be mullions on the window. Ms. Trent stated that if the board wants them she would have them. She is planning to put stain glass pictures inside the windows. If she has to put the mullions on the window, then she would only be able to display small stain glass pictures. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 6 Mr. Singeisen stated that the code requires an operable window to be maintained in historic buildings. He informed Ms. Trent that she could request three one over one's, but also recommended that she try to match the windows below. Ms. Trent stated that she would not be able to have an eight -lite window at the top because there is not enough room because of the roofline. The windows will be half the size of what is on the first floor. Mr. Myers left the meeting at this time. Ms. Valente made a motion to approve extending the bay window to the second story underneath existing roofline and to include three operable multi -pane wood windows. Ms. Shreve seconded. Mr. Then against the motion. All others in favor. Motion carried. Item number three is the fence, prior approved to go around perimeter of alley side to 17 ft. from sidewalk in front. Ms. Trent stated that the A/C contractor wants the condenser units under the bay window and she wants this area to be enclosed for security reasons. The fencing material to be used is vinyl. Mr. Singeisen stated that item number three goes on to read 3 -ft. fence on sidewalk perimeter in front of house, which a vinyl fence sheet is submitted for. He informed Ms. Trent that prior to the actual meeting at six there was a five o'clock workshop which the board discussed vinyl fencing. They do allow some vinyl fencing, but not along the street side of the edge of the residence. Wood fencing will work along the street side. The application can be modified for a 3 -ft. wood picket fence along street side, which meets the existing requirement. The board advised Ms. Trent that she will need to submit a site plan indicating where the fence will be located in reference to the property lines. There was some discussion regarding whether there was a site plan submitted at prior approval or not. Mr. Then moved to approve on the condition that a site plan already exists on prior expired approval given the conditions noted that vinyl fence for the rear and wood fence for the front and if there is no prior site plan than the approval is pending an approval of a site plan. Ms. Kelly seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Item number four is a 4 posted freestanding unenclosed structure. Ms. Trent stated that this area is next to the shed. There is already an existing pad. She would be installing four 4 x 4 posts. The roof is shingled. Ms. Valente informed Ms. Trent that the S code requires a minimum column size of 5 x 5. The board advised Ms. Trent that she could go with 6 x 6 posts or wrap the 4 x 4 posts. MINUTES HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FEBRUARY 14, 2002 PAGE 7 Ms. Trent stated that she plans to put lattice on the 4 x 4 posts. Mr. Singeisen had Ms. Trent draw the lattice on the drawing that was submitted. Ms. Kelly made a motion to approve. Ms. Winternheimer seconded. Ms. Valente stated that the motion needs to include the minimum post size. Ms. Kelly amended the motion to include the post must be at least 5 x 5 in size. Ms. Winternheimer seconded amended motion. All in favor. Motion carried. Certificate of Appropriateness — Residential: 519 Palmetto Avenue — needing variance to allow vinyl fencing for funding purposes, safety of students to replace existing fence. This case was discussed at the workshop. Ms. Whatley was present. The fence will be replaced in the exact same location. The vinyl fencing is for the safety of the students. The fence is 5 ft. with 1 -ft. lattice. She will place some kind of decorative item in front of the fence. Ms. Farrell made a motion to accept fence as submitted with new plantings on it to obscure it. Ms. Kelly seconded. There was a discussion about the plantings regarding shrubbery to 4 -ft. or vines. Ms. Whatley was informed that the work needed to be completed within 6 months. Ms. Farrell suggested to Ms. Whatley that she check with the Historic Trust to see if they could help with the funding. Mr. Then and Ms. Winternheimer against. All others in favor. Motion carried. Mr. Then made a motion to table the minor reviews until next meeting. Ms. Kelly seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Ms. Stevens stated that she would like to discuss with the board an issue regarding approval on lampposts being installed in neighborhoods to light up the area. Mr. Singeisen advised her to give the pictures to Antonia to include it with the next packet. Mr. Singeisen asked Ms. Gerli to place on next month's agenda a general election for chairman position. He will be moving out of Sanford and does not believe a chairman of any board should not live within the city. Mr. Then commended Mr. Singeisen on his attitude and asked him to reconsider. There being no further business, meeting adjourned at 7:53 P.M.